Texas barrelponics system

[momofboys]

After much reading online, the purchase & viewing of Murray's DVD, and a hands-on workshop, we are ready to build our first set-up.

We have a small frontyard that gets very little sunshine and a backyard at a lower elevation that gets more sunshine, but is solid bedrock about 6 inches down. So my husband has come up with the following plan. We are posting it here in hopes of receiving constructive criticism. We'd much rather be told if something looks like it won't work than find out all by ourselves.

Due to the narrow yard, tree shading, and bedrock, it is impossible (to us) to get the fish tank lower than the growbeds. So we will be using a modified CHOP (or CHIFT PIST).

The Fish tank will be in the "front" yard which is about 1 meter higher than the back yard, and water from the Fish Tank will flow (via the tee pipe) into a dump barrel in our backyard, which will then flow into the growbeds once the level in the dump tank is high enough to start a siphon. The growbeds will empty into a rain gutter which will empty into the sump, which will pump it back up to the FT, to be repeated continuously. (See diagram) We plan to adjust the siphon in the dump barrel so that the pump in the sump remains submerged at all times, and so that the sump barrel will not overflow.

We are also including photos taken at the workshop we attended. Photo 1 shows the simple ebb & flow in the growbeds --no bell siphon, or any kind of siphon, just 2 different sizes of holes, inflow larger than outflow. Photo 2 demonstrates the plumbing design we will use.

The result is that we will have constant height in the fishtank and ebb & flow in the growbeds, assuming we can tweak things correctly.

We take all credit for anything one might think is unworkable or outright dumb. All the good ideas came from Paul's workshop or Murray's DVD or others' work that we have read online. We are thankful that so many are willing to share their experiences for others to learn from.

~c.b. and michelle ellis

[fishfood]

First HI and welcome A few questians whats the distance between the yards , can you show a photo of the backyard , a chop wont work with a 1 in pipe over distance , shorley you can find a spot for the ft in the back [a ft is best in the shade ]
Thats just the start
good luck

[froggo]

Hi momofboys,

welcome,

I must say I like the idea of the gutter and the pots sitting in it, the only problem may be algae growth.

If you have a float switch on the pump it will turn on when the water hits the max level you set for the sump. The other benefit is it will turn off the pump when the water level is at minimum to ensure no dry running.

I run my sump pump with a float switch and timer.

Half the fun of setting up a system is the minor adjustments/tweaking to make it run just right.

God bless froggo.

[momofboys]

Thanks for the welcome and quick input--exactly what we were hoping for!

To 'fishfood': I'll post a photo of the yards as soon as I can, but they are adjacent to each other (a big L shape), the 'front' yard' (really on the side of the house) is in full shade nearly year-round. There is a drop-off of 3 ft (1 m) with a rock wall between the side and back yards-so no distance between the yards. The FT will be in full shade, and the veggies will get sun--we hope it's enough.

Which brings up another concern we've had. The growbeds will be just a foot away from the house (house on north side of of them). They will get some direct sun (betw. 10am and 3pm), but a lot of filtered sunlight. We hope that's enough to grow veggies.

To get back to fishfood's other concern: The distance between the sump and the FT is 13 feet, with a rise of 4 feet. Hubby is experienced with plumbing and doesn't see this as a problem.

To froggo: The potted plants in the gutter were just placed there by Paul (who gave the workshop) to show us how to easily root new plants. So, definitely a temporary thing.

The float switch sounds like a good idea, but we're hoping to keep the pump running all the time. Paul told us that it strains a pump much more to turn on and off frequently than to just run all the time. (Plus we have a bedroom window very close by.) He says he has a cheap pump that has run for over 3yrs, prob because it runs constantly. So we'll try to control it by height of the dump barrel siphon, first.

We're starting work today on it. Yippee! We have our 3 little boys (7, 5, 3) to help us, and the baby (1 yo) to supervise.

~Michelle

[momofboys]

I've been slow in getting photos up, but we have done a lot of work on our system in the last few weeks. Here's some photos showing our progress:



This is a view of our system from the upper yard, with the 250 gallon IBC tote (fish tank) in the lower right corner.



Here is another view from the lower yard, with the sump tank in the foreground, followed by the growbeds, and then the dump tank (upright white barrel).



This last photo is of one of the first times the tank dumped. So exciting! We spent a few weeks fine-tuning things so the sump tank wouldn't overflow (shortened siphon in dump tank), and also so water levels would be fairly even in the growbeds (made more difficult by the uneven ground).

Four weeks ago we added 4 minnows (or maybe mosquito fish?) and some water from a nearby stream. I wasn't sure if so few fish would do the job quickly enough, so when I saw some free goldfish on craigslist, I got those also and added them. So we have 5 large (8 inches or more) goldfish in there also. Surprisingly, they haven't eaten the little fish.

I didn't start checking the nitrates, etc until a week after the second group of fish were added. But when I did, I consistently got 0 nitrates, low nitrites, and 7.4 pH. The strip tests 2 other things that also were in the safe area. So, maybe the system has cycled already? In only 3 weeks? It's been a week since I first tested, and I just began testing every other day instead of every day. Zero nitrates every time. Could it have cycled so quickly?

Now we're wondering how many catfish we should start off with. Any input? (We'll remove the goldfish at that time.)

Thanks,
Michelle

p.s Forgot to add that we also have planted tomatoes, squash, lettuce, green onions, cabbage and some houseplants in the growbeds. All are doing well, except the squash, which is looks quite waterlogged.

[GaryD]

Hi Michelle,

Thanks for the photos.......you're on your way now.

Gary

[aussieap]

Hi. Perhaps your system has cycled. I would make sure there is no ammonia b4 adding your catfish, just to be certain. We have not found the test strips terribly accurate over here. You will be able to pick up a test kit with 4-5 small bottles of drops for the various tests. They give a more accurate reading, not too expensive.
I wouldn't be too concerned about not having a nitrate reading. You don't have a lot of fish, so any nitrates will be getting used immediately by your plants.
Hope it all goes well and thanks for posting the pics. I bet your boys love feeding the goldfish.

[momofboys]

We finally have ironed out most of the problems in our system, and have some nice veggies growing. But the pH in the fish tank keeps shooting up to 8.3 or higher. I balance it with pH down (a form of citrate) every day, but it keeps inching up. The problem is definitely coming from the FT, all the growbeds' pH gradually decrease the further they are from the FT (the closer ones get more volume from the FT).

Our FT is an IBC tote--all plastic with a wire cage on the outside supporting it. But we do have 2 stainless steel chains at the bottom of the tank to anchor the airstones down. Could these cause the pH to rise?

FWIW, average pH in our part of the country (Austin, TX) is usually in the high 8's to high 9's. I bring the pH in the add-in water down to 6.5 before addition.

I currently only have 3 huge goldfish and 15 young catfish in the FT, with a total of about 600 gallons of water in circulation.

Thanks for any input,
Michelle

maybe if someone could move this thread over to here: http://www.aquaponicshq.com/forums/s...lponics-system , then you could get a visual of our system. I forgot that I'd started a thread on our system with photos over a year ago...

[GaryD]

Hi Michelle,

While I don't think the stainless steel should affect your pH, you could satisfy yourself of this by removing it. A fired clay housebrick will keep your airstones in the bottom of the tank in the meantime.

I'm assuming that you are adding mains water to your system......correct? If so, the water is naturally hard from the source. You may find that it contains elements that resist buffering which is why your pH levels always return to their original levels.

By the way, I'd find an alternative to the pH Down that you are using. I can't remember why right at the moment but it shouldn't be used in an aquaponics system. I'd be using a dilute solution of sulphuric or hydrochloric acid instead....with all of the usual precautions associated with using acid.

Never pour water into acid......always do it the other way round. When water hits acid it reacts violently and you could get splashed. Wear appropriate personal protective equipment when handling acids and always make pH adjustments in small increments.

Can you use rainwater instead? It will not have the same buffering problem.

If you can't get sufficient quantities of rainwater, you'll need to use a buffer solution to stabilise the pH of your water......before you add it to your fish tank. Your local water authorities (or your local hydroponics shop) should be able to tell you what the problematic elements in your water supply are ....and to recommend a buffer solution (in your situation it will be an acid and a conjugate base) that is appropriate.

You'll find that, once you get your water down to pH 6.2 - 6.5, your plants will be even happier and they'll be able to access nutrients that are not available to them at the higher pH.

Gary

[Ravnis]

It looks like your tank is outside. Is it getting lots algae in it? Algea can swing your ph from 6 to 9. It will be highest during the day and lowest in the morning before sunrise.

Once the plants get established, the algae will start to die down. Also, what is your alkalinity or carbonate hardeness. Austin is built on a large layer of limestone so the water from lake travis probably has high ph and high alkalinity. Alkalinity will cause your ph to bounce back up after you lower it with an acid.