Aquaponics without the Fish

[GaryD]

Hi,

PAP member Trout has made a post that I think will be of interest to many aquaponicists......and particularly those that like to run trout in the cooler months or Barramundi in the hot weather.

Yes, I run my system fishless over summer. It all happened accidently.

last year I bought 50 silver perch and they died within a week.
The fish were already packed when I got there. In hindsight I should have
walked away.

But that left me with no fish last summer so I developed a system of
adding seasol/charlie carp and urea.
I try to keep my nitrates between 40 and 80 ppm and it works great.
Frankly I don't see why people spend money on hydroponic solutions.

Furthermore, if I keep silver perch over summer I can't get any trout
over winter because it takes perch a lot longer to grow.
So doing what I do means I get more fish mass per year.

Another benefit is we can go down the beach for a week or three over
summer and not have to worry about the fish.

If the power should go off, the pump stops and when the power comes back on the pumps starts again.

Since there are no fish they can't die.

Means I can have a relaxing holiday, it's a win win.

Trout's post is interesting for a variety of reasons including:

1. If you are careful in your choice of such "bottled products" you will be raising clean fresh food.

2. It's no less organic than aquaponics....particularly if you take the addition of iron, calcium and potassium into account. Let's face it, once you start adding things to an aquaponics system it's really a hydroponic system. Right?

3. You can harvest the fish out of your system without losing your plants. In fact, as he makes clear, you can run your growing system - indefinitely.

4. Since he uses urea (which is an ammonia source), he's always got nitrification happening so he can add a fresh lot of fingerlings without interruption.

5. He only needs to do pH and nitrate tests to be able to determine the nutrient levels in his system.

6. He can reduce the water amount of water in his system......so long as he's got enough to operate his growing system.

7. He can get the full growing season for his trout - without regard to other fish in the system.

8. He can take a holiday in the off-season.

9. He can run his system using minimum power during the off-season.....no heating/cooling required.

An excellent post......from an experienced operator.

Aquaponics without the fish......and vermiponics without the worms......just plain good old hydropnics.

Gary

[bigdaddy]

Hi everyone,

I just cut this from a post I posted on PAP, and I think it is beneficial to this discussion..

"Just a little background to my system...I have two IBC's down the side of my house which is running a Sonic P-125 with air going to each tank and to a K1 filled Moving bed..

Last winter I Had a 3 week holiday in Paris..In which I lost my trout I cleaned the tanks upon my return and added some more Which due to bad luck I encountered a loss of power..no air to my system and death to my next batch..

I Then decided to move my system 1/2 way down the side of my house and fishless cycle the complete system 1st just running it aquaculture then added 2 of my grow beds back on with no fish..

My decision I made a year or so ago was to run 6 months Barra from Oct-march and 6 months trout...well that was the plan..It meant I was eating nice sized trout and small to medium Barramundi..And I would only have to heat at the beginning of the barra season and end.

After fishless cycling I removed the old winter veges from the grow beds and added the summer veges..My next decision was to move my IBC'S down the very bottom of my side of the house which took a couple of weeks..Doing this chewed so much into my trout season it was not worth buying any trout just for a couple of months and by the time I recycled the trout would not grow and I t would start to get warm..So I waited until October keeping the system fishless cyled My plan was to but the barramundi and load into the system but alas we did not get any hot weather..so it was not worth getting barramundi ..anyway Christmas came and I took another 3 week holiday ...Oh and when running fish less I would add Seasol and Powerfeed...IMO by my observation Powerfeed really gets your plants powering on.. So we have no fish in the system and feeding bacteria and plants with seasol and powerfeed.

I went away for three weeks and left it in the hands of my mate who hand balled the "looking after " the system to my house sitters... I came home only to discover no one topped up the system and the plants were 1/2 dead and dry.. I filled up the system again to the proper levels and have not been feeding it with anything apart from topping up daily particularly when it is hot with water...I am surprised that I am getting a good feed of tomatoes now and some nice Lebanese cucumbers , my spring onions are looking good my parsley is not but slowly getting better, my oregano has made a full recovery and just starting to look good my leeks are coming on good my strawberries are looking OK but not fruiting.. So running the system without fish and very little additives can certainly work and if my system were looked after all the time with more nutrients (Seasol and Powerfeed) going into them I think I would of got a considerably larger crop..

The point is whilst I love the fish..they are fantastic fun..you can grow really nice veges without them...

I just thought I'd throw it out there for discussion If anyone cares to comment.

I'll finish this post by saying I can't wait for March when I get my new stock of rainbow trout and I really pray Our seasons will come back to normal."

Cheers.

[JohnMc]

My take away here is -- with the right selection of nutrient sources you can transition between a aquaponic and hydroponic system and retain your plants if you have to pull the fish early. Nice concept.

Did he mention any tuning before reintroudcing fish to the system? I would think you would want to test the system for nut levels before you did so.

[GaryD]

Hi John,

From what I could see of it, he monitors his nitrate levels in the interests of his plants.

The only thing that would be necessary for the introduction of fish (and I imagine he's got it covered) would be to confirm that the pH is OK. He'd only need to discontinue adding the urea prior to putting in the new fingerlings.

He's not the first person to run an AP system on bottled products......but he has worked out how to transition from fish to no fish in a seamless fashion......and all power to him.

Gary

[RS_]

what about adding urea to help keep the plants going full on, when the total fish mass, thus feed rate is not enough to keep up with the plants demand for nitrates....?

I have been adding 1/3 to 1/2 cup of supposedly pure ammonia to the GB's every so often over the winter, but now have a little foam in my fish tank and don't want to add any more.

need to look for a good source of urea that will work and not cause problems

[GaryD]

Hi RS,

I wouldn't add ammonia to any system that had fish in it.......and certainly not urea. If the fish are so small that they won't power a growing system, I'd probably either run a separate RAS for the little fish or I'd nitrify the ammonia independently of the system and add the nitrates once the conversion had occurred.

My concern with adding ammonia into a system containing fish is the impact that it has on dissolved oxygen levels......coupled with the effect of the ammonia/nitrite on the fish.

Are you sure that you've actually got pure ammonia? Some cleaning products contain surfactants - surface acting agents - which produce the bubbles that we seem to need to see before we're convinced that it really will clean......and these definitely would not be good for fish.

The other (and more likely) possibility is that the foaming is protein.

Gary

[Shane]

The two smallest systems that I run are identical to each other in terms of GB volume, FT size, amount of sun they receive etc. The only difference is one is powered by fish, whilst the other one has never had fish put in it (only ever powered by urea & seasol, with the odd occasional small add of chelated iron & eco-rose).
The fishless system has out performed the fish powered one each & every month for well over the 2+ years of operation of both systems. The plants look healthier and the output in terms of produce has been greater every month....only downside is....theres no fish to eventually harvest (but theres a lot less monitoring to worry about).

Heres is some of what is currently in the fishless system....it all looks fine to me.







Everything is different,
There is no magic formula or new no fail farming revolution.

Some things will grow better in dirt, others in hydro & again others in AP etc....IMO anyone who tells you differently is either naive, a BS artist, or has a vested interest.

[ande]

Everything is different,
There is no magic formula or new no fail farming revolution.

Some things will grow better in dirt, others in hydro & again others in AP etc....IMO anyone who tells you differently is either naive, a BS artist, or has a vested interest.

I agree.
I do "the Fish without Aquaponics" In the winter season. They don't grow much (no feeding) but then again no maitnance, keep a hole in the ice (airation) and iff it's snow for extended periods, clear part off the pond so the daylight shines thru the ice.

cheers

[Ravnis]

what about adding urea to help keep the plants going full on, when the total fish mass, thus feed rate is not enough to keep up with the plants demand for nitrates....?

I have been adding 1/3 to 1/2 cup of supposedly pure ammonia to the GB's every so often over the winter, but now have a little foam in my fish tank and don't want to add any more.

need to look for a good source of urea that will work and not cause problems

Have you considered ammonium nitrate, potassium nitrate or calcium nitrate? The only draw back would be as to whether or not this would be enough to keep the biofilter going. I suspect you would have to mix it up with water and let sit a while before adding to the system as ammonium nitrate could change the ph and possibly convert to ammonia.

[RS_]

Ravnis,

I have not tried ammonium nitrate, potassium nitrate or calcium nitrate, will have to look into these and sources for them

are their any thing else that will help add nitrates to the system and not harm the fish....?

when i have added ammonia, the test the next morn was 0 or just showing a trace, so it was being converted real fast

Damon was talking about running a system with a minimum amount of fish in another thread, and i think i have gone below that minimum, since the early fall, because i have sold so many fish, and have a ton of IVY growing along with the peppers, toms, etc, etc........

Thanks