Tied of Ignorant False Statements

[Earthan Group]

I am not certain why we constantly read misinformation about aquaculture, especially those poorly educated on the topic. It seems for aquaponics, those with a vested interest seem to think to get people’s attention and promote the good of aquaponics, they have to make wide inaccurate and negative/damaging statements about aquaculture being polluters.

The an example of the types of hyped up statements are in the video below around 4:38 "The bad news...." and then tends to waffle on about waste and disposing of the waste, illness and antibiotics.... Shows how hard it is to articulate a topic you are not fluent in.



A better approach would be to talk more about the benefits of utilizing the nutrient provided by the fish in aquaculture and how the industries can be invigorated by embracing integrated technologies even though aquaculture is miles ahead in terms of contributions to environmental sustainability.

RAS technology is still in infancy around the world and is slowly replacing sea cages and ponds because of its environmentally friendly characteristics. Their disease control capacity is massive in comparison to cages and ponds and the capacity to produce supremely clean, healthy fish, close to markets reducing carbon dioxide emissions from reduced food transport.

I have to say again, land based aquaculture is the most sustainable animal protein production on the planet next to poultry. From a production point of view, we can produce 5 times more fish per kg of feed than nature can for the same input because we are so efficient at it.

In regards to waste from fish farms, here in Australia we lead the world in environmental standards for fish farming with a ZERO waste discharge from farms which is somewhat contradictory to the video commentator.

I suppose it has the desired effect, I am talking about the video........

[GaryD]

Hi,

You don't have to go all the way to the US to find ill-informed people denigrating the aquaculture industry.

The Aquaculture Association of Queensland is less than delighted with some of the utter nonsense that has been spread about the industry here.

The suggestion that the fish in a commercial recirculating aquaculture system live in their own waste is patently false. RAS operators have to spend enormous sums of money to ensure that that doesn't happen........and they don't do it because they're good guys (although I like those that I've met), but rather because their fish contract diseases and/or die if they don't maintain appropriate water quality,

The aquaculturists already have what the aquaponics industry crave.......the ear of government, research funding and skilled researchers to advance their industry.

Pissing such an industry off is just plain stupid......particularly if your avowed goal is to avoid government interference. In many places, backyard fish farming is banned because of the perceived threat that it poses to the environment and the commercial aquaculture industry.

It's one thing to behave irresponsibly if you're a relative unknown. It's something quite different if you get in the road of people who, in some cases, have invested millions in their farms. They are not going to take lightly to someone telling the world at large that they are polluters......or that their fish are somehow not fit to eat.

Gary

[Damon]

In regards to waste from fish farms, here in Australia we lead the world in environmental standards for fish farming with a ZERO waste discharge from farms which is somewhat contradictory to the video commentator.

I suppose it has the desired effect, I am talking about the video........

where do the wastes go? i mean yes i know the water is filtered before it hits the sewer, but where does the stuff caught in the filters go?

i've seen on the FAO site that it says feeding fish wastes or fish byproducts to other fish is a way of reducing waste? isn't that how we started mad cow disease? i know there's a difference between cos and fish, one being a herbivore and the other can be a multitude of different "vores" if you will, but if a facility is harvesting their wasted fish parts, and then turning it into fish meal for their fish on their farm, isn't that forced cannibalism?

and i think the main problem the governments have with people privately raising fish is because of species contamination... birds land in their ponds and pick up fry or eggs in their feathers and deposit them god knows where... even small bird like swallows swooping in for a drink can pick up a fry or egg and pass it along to another body of water... or, at least that was what was explained to me as a reason for why i could have my yellow perch out in hawaii by an FAO rep. the concern for feral specie contamination it seems is a higher priority than the toxic contamination... yes, there are regulations as to what you have to do with your dirty water before it can be dumped, but at least you can do it...

and im sure sylvia wouldn't go around and blithely make comments that she knew little about. she's more educated than that. yes, out in australia that have what you called the "zero waste" facilities, but just because your country prides itself in the aspect, that doesn't mean it's a standard industry wide. and even when and if it does become the standard, you're always going to have those crude business people the cut corners and shave the straights to make their profits just a little bit better, meaning, slacking in industry standards.

[mortys]

Sylvia has no idea what she is talking about. Two years ago she was selling over priced hydroponics equipment targeted mainly to indoor pot growers and had no clue at all about aquaponics or aquaculture. When the hydro business started to dry up she got into selling aquaponics kits at $2000 each and some how magically became one of the worlds foremost experts on aquaponics [self proclaimed] and the president of the Aquaponics Association [an organization she created to try to make herself actually look legitimate]. She also wrote a book [wrote is probably not the best word; plagiarized probably is more fitting] that she promotes as one of the best sources of information on aquaponics today. The content of the book is taken straight out of these forums. Much of the information was used without proper citation or permission. It is also full of mistakes and assumptions. She will say anything to make a quick buck.

Wonder why no other professional outfits will join the association? Because it would hurt their credibility being connected to her. She is just interested in promoting the interests of her own website [that sells aquarium supplies marketed as aquaponics tools and over priced kits making ridiculous production claims] by spreading false information and trying to brain wash a bunch of innocent naive aquaponics newbies into believing the stuff.


This Syvlia is a real piece of work and she has managed to a trick a huge group of people into thinking she actually knows what she is talking about.

[Damon]

one, just because she's not a member of this forums, that doesn't warrant a full scale attack.

two, name one aquaponic component that didn't start out as an aquaculture component. everything AP has in reference to just about all of the water handling tech, is derived from some for of aquaculture. so your point about cross selling items is mute. maybe, just maybe, saying is AP equipment is stating that it's safe to use from the plants perspective.

three, intellectual property theft doesn't exist on an open forum.

[Earthan Group]

where do the wastes go? i mean yes i know the water is filtered before it hits the sewer, but where does the stuff caught in the filters go?

Ours are held in retention ponds either lined or built with impervious clay to prevent leaching into water tables. Other countries have very specific methods and many of the new facilities utilize dephos and denitro technologies some of which include vegetation so specific filters. Perhaps a bit research would help....

Where do aquaponic wastes go? If you respond with "aquaponics generates not waste" then you know much less about the topic than you think you do. There is waste as wasted resources and there are wastes as waste material that cannot be used...

She talks about the crowded fish in RAS causing the need for antibiotics etc... Does aquaponics not grow fish in tanks just as crowded as RAS?...

i've seen on the FAO site that it says feeding fish wastes or fish byproducts to other fish is a way of reducing waste? isn't that how we started mad cow disease?

What does that have to do with Recirculating Aquaculture Systems?

and i think the main problem the governments have with people privately raising fish is because of species contamination... birds land in their ponds and pick up fry or eggs in their feathers and deposit them god knows where...

We are specifically speaking about RAS. Here the government tends to over regulate the transportation of fish and where species can be grown, sometime poorly but Australians tend to respect, if not encourage those specific regulations. The guys without a vested interest in the biosecurity in Australia are the first to complain about it.

yes, there are regulations as to what you have to do with your dirty water before it can be dumped, but at least you can do it...

Why can people not get it in their head, aquaculture farms in Australia do not dump water anywhere, especially not into local water ways, creeks and rivers!

and im sure sylvia wouldn't go around and blithely make comments that she knew little about. she's more educated than that. yes, out in australia that have what you called the "zero waste" facilities, but just because your country prides itself in the aspect, that doesn't mean it's a standard industry wide. and even when and if it does become the standard, you're always going to have those crude business people the cut corners and shave the straights to make their profits just a little bit better, meaning, slacking in industry standards.

It is quite obvious she does go around making outrageous broad statement, that video is testament. If American aquaculture is so poorly done, then I expect an American to say, "The problem with Aquaculture in America...." I can assure you, American Aquaculture is a much larger industry than in Australia and millions of dollars are spent specifically to promote the clean, high quality fish produced in farms and prevent this type of negative rubbish being spread.

Has she visited other countries and witnessed how aquaculture is done?

There are so many better ways to make statements about the benefits of aquaponics and integrated farming than dropping dirt on other industries like hydroponics and aquaculture. These are the very industries, that with there support, would help launch aquaponics to greater heights and recognition.

I am disappointed every time I see or hear this type of hysteria because from an aquaponics point of view, it does not elevate the "cause" at all and it offends me and my fellow aquaculturists and researchers that work endlessly to engage in sustainable and environmental fish farming.

[Damon]

and im disappointed with hypocrisy... being upset about people posting videos of you with misinformation and then spreading videos complaining about misinformation is one in the same.

[mortys]

where do the wastes go? i mean yes i know the water is filtered before it hits the sewer, but where does the stuff caught in the filters go?

Dude! This has been covered many times. RAS = RECIRCULATING AQUACULTURE SYSTEM. You don't dump waste down the sewer. You really need to do some reading. This is about as simple as it comes. Earthen has covered this with you a bunch of times on a bunch of different threads of yours; so has Gary and so has Kellen. These guys know what they are talking about. You come to this site and a bunch of others and claim you are some brilliant aquaponics guy and solicit work, but you don't even have some of the most basic skills and even worse you don't listen and learn from people who have on several occasions very nicely pointed out your mistakes in your posts. That is a real dangerous trait to have in the aquaculture industry my friend. Being the manager at FAP for a bit doesn't make you all that credible to be honest. I'm not even sure I would mention it. It is no secret that they got busted for growing pot at that facility and I think it was at or real close to the same time you were there! Besides their system is actually not very good over all. I'm not saying that to be mean. I'm saying it because it is obvious you are young and a little over confident. Take some time to really learn the basics. It will do you good.

i've seen on the FAO site that it says feeding fish wastes or fish byproducts to other fish is a way of reducing waste? isn't that how we started mad cow disease?

Oh boy. You do know that most fish.... um.... eat other fish and... um... cows are not... um... designed to eat other cows... um... just grass and forbs right? Fish eat other fish mmmkay. They aren't even very selective. If it fits in their mouth it is a worthy meal. It is often the same species as them that becomes their meal. It is even frequently their own offspring.

i know there's a difference between cos and fish, one being a herbivore and the other can be a multitude of different "vores" if you will, but if a facility is harvesting their wasted fish parts, and then turning it into fish meal for their fish on their farm, isn't that forced cannibalism?

Oh boy. Forced cannibalism? See reply above.

and i think the main problem the governments have with people privately raising fish is because of species contamination... birds land in their ponds and pick up fry or eggs in their feathers and deposit them god knows where... even small bird like swallows swooping in for a drink can pick up a fry or egg and pass it along to another body of water... or, at least that was what was explained to me as a reason for why i could have my yellow perch out in hawaii by an FAO rep. the concern for feral specie contamination it seems is a higher priority than the toxic contamination... yes, there are regulations as to what you have to do with your dirty water before it can be dumped, but at least you can do it...

Invasive species introduction is a concern of course. Aquaculture professionals have a better track record than governments when it comes to this too.

and im sure sylvia wouldn't go around and blithely make comments that she knew little about.

She does... and she is. Did you watch the video? That is just one example. Many of her blog posts and forum posts are even worse.

she's more educated than that.

I'm not sure you are qualified to make that determination based on what I've seen and I wouldn't call her educated at all in aquaculture.

yes, out in australia that have what you called the "zero waste" facilities, but just because your country prides itself in the aspect, that doesn't mean it's a standard industry wide.

How would you know? Have you been there? Have you even read anything at all about the Australian aquaculture industry?

and even when and if it does become the standard, you're always going to have those crude business people the cut corners and shave the straights to make their profits just a little bit better, meaning, slacking in industry standards.

It is the standard and abusers lose their licenses and permits real quick.

[mortys]

one, just because she's not a member of this forums, that doesn't warrant a full scale attack.

Telling the truth is not an attack.

two, name one aquaponic component that didn't start out as an aquaculture component. everything AP has in reference to just about all of the water handling tech, is derived from some for of aquaculture. so your point about cross selling items is mute.

Aquaculture equipment and aquarium equipment..... very different.

maybe, just maybe, saying is AP equipment is stating that it's safe to use from the plants perspective.

Most aquarium equipment and chemicals are explicitly not intended nor approved for use with fish meant for human consumption. You really should know that.

three, intellectual property theft doesn't exist on an open forum.

You really need to do your homework. Yes..... yes it is. It is even worse when the content you took is wrong.

For example:

a fundamental mistake, December 6, 2011
By Kate (United States) - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)
Amazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)
This review is from: Aquaponic Gardening: A Step-By-Step Guide to Raising Vegetables and Fish Together (Paperback)
When I first received this book I did a quick thumb through, and quickly found a fundamental mistake in the info presented. In the section on lights for indoor systems it states in two places that high pressure sodium lights are for vegetative growth and metal halide lights are for flowering/fruiting. This is exactly opposite of what it should be. I don't see any way that someone who's "personal and professional lives have been centered on hydroponics" for "the past eight years" could possibly make a mistake this basic. I bought the book to learn about moving from hydroponics to aquaponics, but I now feel I need to verify any info I find here.

That is just pathetic.

[Earthan Group]

and im disappointed with hypocrisy... being upset about people posting videos of you with misinformation and then spreading videos complaining about misinformation is one in the same.

Damon, one minute you say it is not missinformation then suggest it is! Then make comment that complaining about misinformation is the same as actually publishing that information myself.

Mate I am struggling to follow your logic.