Micro-farming Internships

[GaryD]

Hi Damon,

when choosing an internship, make sure that the labor that you'll be expected to provide as hands on learning fully equates to learning for as much as you work.

This seems entirely reasonable. I'd extend that to ensuring that both parties have a shared (detailed) understanding of what each expects of the other. Anything less than that is bound to be problematic.

an internship is very hands on, but make sure that there is going to be learning that goes further than just how to rotate the crop and build the facility. anyone teaching the commercialization of aquaponics should be covering things like how to enter the market, marketing strategies, and food and safety issues.

Some internships are about gaining experience to improve the intern's chances of gaining employment in a particular industry. Since most existing AP farms are struggling to keep the owners (much less any employees), it's unlikely that the sector will generate too many jobs anytime soon......so I agree that commercial AP internships should be as much about running the aquaponics business as growing the fish and lettuce.

a good way to figure out on the fly (really quick) if an internship is going to be a legitimate one that can teach you more than how to run an aquaponics system, ask for things like a photocopy of their food and safety certification, or ask for a list of their MSDS. (material Safety Data Sheets.) the MSDS need to present for any business that handles chemicals. this goes for cleaning agents as well as the things to balance the pH of the system. they list what the materials are made of, and what you should do incase someone ingests the materials, or otherwise has an allergic reaction to them. all large scale business are required to have these when dealing with laborers.

I agree, but having said that, I would hope that that the list of such substances on an organic farm would be fairly short.

the book at the place iwork at now has a MSDS book that is thicker than my arm.

Don't you work at a food outlet? Should we be eating at a place that keeps that much toxic rocket fuel around the place?

an even simpler thing you can ask for when looking to take classes is a syllabus. if they cant provide one of those... keep walking. if the syllabus spends more time dealing with group skill building activities... chances are at the end of that class you'll feel much better about yourself, but still lack the knowledge that you were originally seeking.

I don't think it need to be quite that rigid. I've been producing training plans for a very long time and they need to be tailored to suit the specific needs of the enterprise and the intern.

Similarly, templated codes of conduct are like any other templates.....they're a guide and will usually need to be tweaked to reflect the particular circumstances at hand.

also... find out how many people will be attending each class. if there's more then 15 people, and the class is only a week long... keep walking... an AP system is just as unique as the person that builds it... so anyone claiming that they have all of the answers in a "one stop shop," can't possibly answer every question that is going to need to be answered for each individual...a system variable like climate differences can take hours to cover if you have people building systems all around the world... hot weather vs. cooler weather vs. cold weather. indoor operation vs. outdoor operations vs. outdoor bug netted operation vs. hoop house operations vs. green house operation vs.... well you get the picture.... then you have the other variables to figure out like the species of fish and plants that you'll be allowed to grow in your system, the pH of rain fall vs. the amount of rain fall and what you should do to correct it or inhibit it's effects, and feeding procedures for the different species of fish, and the list goes on... so anyone claiming to cover each person individual needs over a short period of time with a large class number... chances are your going to want to steer clear of that situation...

Given all of the prospective variables, such a short course would have to assume a whole heap of things. That's why it's important that the outcomes of the course or internships need to be carefully documented in advance so that people know what they're getting.

it's just like public schooling vs. private schooling... 1 teacher for 10 kinds vs. 1 teacher for 40 kids... who do you think comes out with the better education on average?

The ones with the better teacher......every time!

also, people should check and see what advancements the people teaching the class have made. this would show the buyer if their proposed teachers actually have made a positive contribution to the aquaponics community, or if they are just regurgitating the same stuff someone else taught them. if it sounds like the same old song and dance, you should be looking to learn from the people that they learned from, and not from the second hand teachers.

For me, that would depend on the model and how successful that had been. I'd just be looking for people who know what they are doing and how to communicate that.

You've made some useful points......thank you.

Gary

[Damon]

Yes I'm bar tending now, but since we are part of a resort we have to have all of the chemicals listed being used in the complex. I don't personally deal with the pool chemicals, but they are in each copy of the MSDS book. Even thongs that are perfectly safe to handle have to be in the book... this would mean for AP that the Ph buffers and adjusters would need to be included in the book as well as cleaning agents for the processing facility. Basically if its within the fences of the complex it needs to be in every copy of the book on property. You can walk into any restaurant or hotel and ask for their MSDS book... you'd be surprised by what's in them... mundane stuff like hand soap as well as decreasing agents all have a place in these books. Ive even looked up the MSDS for Tue Dow blue boards a few weeks back just to see what they're actually made of.

[GaryD]

Hi,

Even in well-established companies, the compliance burden is becoming increasingly problematic.....to the point where no-one wants to go to the bathroom without first running it past the workplace health and safety officers or the company's corporate lawyers.

This really suits lazy managers because they can tie things up for weeks or months while everyone pontificates about the OH&S and legal implications. It frustrates good manager to the point where nothing happens because no-one is prepared to put up with the crap.

No-one denies the need for safe workplaces.....and, in our increasingly litigious society, we need to be careful to manage risk......but one of those risks is that we'll be too busy filling out the 100 page risk management checklist (so that we can run a chook raffle) that we won't notice the Mack truck that's coming through the front door.

For small business operators, it's far worse......it's increasingly a threat to their survival.

Anyone who has to assemble a big MSDS manual just so they can run internships is probably not going to go to the trouble (of offering the internships).

Gary

[Damon]

it's not really hard to build the MSDS books... most chemicals when ordered at the commercial level, in bulk, come with the MSDS packaged in the box... it's just a matter of saving them... if you do get something but fail to receive the MSDS, they're easy to find... google them, select all, print...

it is a bit of a hassle, but it also comes in handy. with an MSDS book you'll know exactly what to do if you drop a bag of iron chelate and it bursts and gets into your eyes... they're more or less meant to guide you through the accidental exposure / ingestion problems. the MSDS are basically a form of going pro when it comes to the "read the back of the can" phrase when accidents happen...

trust me, i took on the task of going around the complex and sorting through the MSDS books and taking out the sheets of products we no longer use... it was a pain in the butt to put it lightly... but, the bigger the complex, the bigger the MSDS book... where i work we have a full scale indoor water park, 2 restaurants, a house keeping crew of hundreds, and a maintenance staff... each book has to have all of the chemicals that each portion of the complex uses, if for some reason something from the pool areas gets stocked somewhere... or some one shows signs of being allergic to something form a different part of the complex...

now if you're only running a farm... the list would be considerably shorter... disinfectants, and the compounds that you'd put in your system for regulating the pH... there might be some small odds and ends needed to be put in there... but you'd be looking at 10-20 pages tops...

all of this talk about the MSDS makes me want to build an MSDS booklet for my house... there will be the pitter patter of my first child in my house in the coming months... but maybe that's just me being paranoid... lol. all of my cleaning chemicals are kept in a cupboard 4ft off the ground behind a closed door in the laundry room, so it'd take an act of god for an infant to get to them... but there is always that possibility of "what if" that makes me want to have an MSDS book for the simple things like laundry detergent... i guess that's why plases keep the MSDS's... because of the "what if's." i've had to consult the MSDS book behind the bar for someone that was having a reaction to the pool chemicals... so really you never know what you might need to know.

[ande]

Hi,

Even in well-established companies, the compliance burden is becoming increasingly problematic.....to the point where no-one wants to go to the bathroom without first running it past the workplace health and safety officers or the company's corporate lawyers.

This really suits lazy managers because they can tie things up for weeks or months while everyone pontificates about the OH&S and legal implications. It frustrates good manager to the point where nothing happens because no-one is prepared to put up with the crap.

No-one denies the need for safe workplaces.....and, in our increasingly litigious society, we need to be careful to manage risk......but one of those risks is that we'll be too busy filling out the 100 page risk management checklist (so that we can run a chook raffle) that we won't notice the Mack truck that's coming through the front door.

I think this is changing. It's so common at all levels and a incorporated part off everyday routins and life in general these days.

For small business operators, it's far worse......it's increasingly a threat to their survival.
Gary

Agree, also it's stoping a lot from even trying to start (in many trades).

Anyone who has to assemble a big MSDS manual just so they can run internships is probably not going to go to the trouble (of offering the internships).

Here I disagree, at least around here (Norway/EU), Iff I'm in buisniss I allready have the document's "manual".,
It's rather the xtra responsibility, of having to look after the intern/trainee, a serious one(internship) means unskilled labor often young
careless...............
So to motivate companys to arange for such(trainees/interns). you recive a compensation ($) for your loss (free labor) and the trainee often get their "sallary" from the unemployment office.(government). So it can be a win/win for both partys.

However you don't get this (compensation) to participate in a "big happy family" thing (baybysit, do the shoping.....) like a aupair.

cheers

[Damon]

However you don't get this (compensation) to participate in a "big happy family" thing (baybysit, do the shoping.....) like a aupair.

cheers

Very well put. This was a giant grey zone where I was at. It wasn't stipulated as part of the duties when it came to taking care of the family, but it was still expected. There should be a deciding line between business help and home life help.

[GaryD]

Hi,

This thread has produced some useful ideas for how an internship could/should run.

Thanks for the contributions. I'll see what I can do to pull it all together so that we end up with something of practical use.....for those people who are thinking about doing/hosting internships.

Gary