World Aquaponics Association

[Pugo]

Not odd, this whole thing is just a way to generate cash for select group of people..

[GaryD]

Hi,

One of the interesting dynamics at work here is that, in the presence of this momentous event, BYAP is carrying on like nothing is happening.

While it might be argued that nothing is, the other interesting dynamic is that RupertofOz (who is a prominent member of both BYAP and PAP) is completely silent on the matter of the Aquaponics Association.

Normally, you can't shut Rupert up with a howitzer but, on one (BYAP) hand, the official position is to ignore the aquaponics association.....while, on the other (PAP) hand, there's all sorts of "by golly by gosh" stuff happening.

Rupert is between a rock and a hard place.

If he slags the association idea on PAP (which is usually how he reacts to this sort of announcement), he'll get bitten by Muzza......and if he supports it, he'll attract the ire of Joel. Since Joel is obviously ignoring the whole deal, Rupert isn't game to say anything at all on BYAP.

This little pantomime illustrates the difficulty in serving two masters......and it also evidences the fact that, when you sit on the fence, you'll probably get a picket up your backside.

Gary

[jobney]

Yeah where is James Rakocy, Will Allen, or Rebecca Nelson as speakers? Three people, scientist/educator, grower, and manufacturer/educator.

80% of the speakers at this conference should be the growers. A legitimate Aquaponics Association should be a group of successful commercial and hobby growers. The innovators are the growers. Can Friendly AP operate on growing alone? Is the only way to make it commercially to sell plans and hold classes? It seems like the growers that are doing it are too busy working while the loudest voices are not making their living selling food.

Not odd, this whole thing is just a way to generate cash for select group of people..

[Bear]

Just a couple of observations from a novice around the charter document.

Why, if it has been months in the creation, were only 4 people involved? Surely the time for consultation was during the creation of the document.

Why the "secret squirrel "business for the past few months?

Sorry, but it seems to me that this document will be presented to a handful of people in a couple of weeks, decisions will be made, offical positions filled and everyone but the Fab 4 left out in the dark.

They will have control over a fistful of your dollars and absolutely no one but each other to decide which airline to prop up first as they flit all over the world pushing themselves and their business interests under the guise of promoting the Aquaponics Association.

Sorry, but I would rather go out and attempt to raise funds, set up systems, and supply training in the operation of them to genuine people who really want to learn how to feed their families clean fresh food and can't afford to do it.

I will not put one red cent into any association that has its beginnings in such fluff and fancy.

Why after all these years, do we suddenly need to be reassuring people of the safety of aquaponically grown food? Anyone had the authorities on their doorstep lately because some family member ate a bad lettuce?

Call me an cynic but a dozen or so of us have bets about who the office bearers will be, no door prizes for getting that one right, but I will bet they keep the finance officer close to the family.

Want some crediblility you Fab 4? Ask the membership before the first one of you climbs on a plane, elects a finance officer, makes a payment on a website noone else has had any input into. Geez, let someone not connected to you at least choose the logo colours so there can be no confusion.

And guess what guys! Any 2 of them can hold a meeting in the nearest phone box, and the Cussons soap ad with the "Tahiti looks nice Simon" line becomes their reality. Qantas could be saved after all!!!!

[rabu]

seriously don't you guys have something better to do then bitch and whinge... don't join it who cares...

[Bear]

Hello Rabu

Thank you for your input. You are welcome to your opinion, but please don't insult my intelligence by saying "don't join it who cares".

Is any critism of this association going to cause you grief? If this is the case can I respectfully suggest you do not open any more posts on this thread.

I still have a lot of questions and concerns and will definately continue to ask people to think about what is happening.

Lookee here! you actually live in the same suburb as I do, who woulda thunk it?

[GaryD]

Hi Rabu,

You, like anyone else on this forum are entitled to your view of the world. The advice that I generally provide in situations like these is that if you don't like the content of the thread, you should stay out of it.

Out of curiosity, I've reviewed the posts that you've made since you joined the forum......and that leads me to conclude that you might be a PAP troll at large. So Matty, get useful or get lost!

Gary

[GaryD]

Hi,

When the Aquaponics Conference first emerged, it was called the Orland Aquaponics Conference in all of the threads that mentioned it. Suddenly, it is now the Aquaponics Association Conference.

Has it occurred to anyone else that a money-making venture has morphed into an Association-building exercise? It is any wonder that questions are being asked about vested interests?

Sylvia Bernstein has posted a response to some of the criticism of the Association on her forum......

Hi Rupert. I appreciate your thoughtful questions, especially given the grief you are starting to get from a certain Aussie forum.

Sylvia, don't be too concerned about Rupert. Let me remind you that the thread in which Hallam copied your forum post contains the sort of character assassination for which Rupert is well-known (this time against Colle Davis)......and that Rupert functions as the junkyard dog for both BYAP and PAP.

The Association started as a US concept, with the notion that it might expand later if warranted, but it was weird to think about an Aquaponics Association without Aussie involvement, and Murray was enthusiastic......

Of course he was. He's been looking to create a vehicle for self-aggrandizement for years. He went so far as to purchase the trappings of GANRAD - a defunct Association instrument that was started (and abandoned) by a colleague of mine.

It continues.....

We wholeheartedly agree that the most important level of the Association is the member level, and that the Association must not only promote the "idea" of aquaponics, but also the needs of it's members. We will be constantly surveying the members, as we are now, to find out what those needs are and how to better serve them.

If you were serious about this you'd be mirroring industry associations elsewhere. In farming associations of every type, the real power is vested in the growers/producers .....and not the retailers that feed off the industry (they are usually assigned a special category of non-voting membership).

The Aquaponics Association charter has all of the decision-making power vested in the Executive and, as things are structured in your proposal, it's going to be very difficult for any producer (or group of producers) to resist any action of the Executive.

The notion of altruism vs vested interests is an interesting one to me. At the highest level I can assure you that the officers make no money from the association - they pay the dues just like everyone else. They also have no stated privileges beyond any prestige that might come from holding any office.

Sylvia, you're a smart woman....so let's not insult the intelligence of the very people who you hope to attract to your Association.

If anyone thinks that the members of the Executive of the association won't be promoting themselves, and their business interests (doing book signings, running seminars, pushing products, etc), while they are jetting around the world on Association business (at the members' expense), they are sniffing pixie dust.

As has been pointed out elsewhere......

The notion of flying around the world to meetings is "so 20th Century"....and, in this digital age, much less expensive and less time-consuming ways of running associations and conference exist.....including Skype, webinars, teleconferencing, etc.

There is a remarkable similarity between your web site colours and those of the new association.....the inference being that the association is just part of your own marketing plan.

For my part.....

Some of the Association's objectives are simply red herrings.....like the bit about dispelling myths and rumours around aquaponics and aquaponic food. There are no such rumours (unless you're starting them).....and the only myths around aquaponics are those started by Murray......and perpetuated by good folks like yourself.

The personal concerns that I have about the Association idea are:

That it serves no worthwhile purpose that is not already catered for by the various AP forums (which are the clubs and chapters of Aquaponics anyway) and the various businesses that already operate.

That it will seek to "define" aquaponics.....you're already pushing the word "aquapon" when AP'ers or "aquaponicist" are the usual terms (for example)......and eventually set out to marginalise those who don't follow the party line.

Sylvia and Gina......your observations about the amount of work that has gone into the Charter, and the need for a chosen few to do it, is utter bull****. You can buy a draft constitution for an incorporated association in any newsagent (magazine store).

If you were really serious about starting a worldwide aquaponics movement, you'd be inviting everyone with a prospective interest (using technology to limit the cost of the exercise) onto a neutral web site to provide input.....and to contribute to its formation instead of launching it in very controlled circumstances where the outcome is pre-determined.

The Association is not representative of the broader aquaponics community. It comprises a handful of vested interests who have used a conference as the guise to start an organisation which they hope will attract a little glory (and a heap of money) to themselves. I'm gratified by the number of people for whom this is increasingly transparent.

Gary

[Earthan Group]

no need to buy them just download them and modify.

http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/pd...nstitution.pdf

This is of interest....
http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/Co...tary_gain.html

[Pugo]

Now that's a great post.. Earthan Group

Incorporated associations
The Associations Incorporation Act 2009 (the Act) facilitates the incorporation of associations engaging in small-scale, non-profit and non-commercial activities.

Organisations engaged in commercial activities are not eligible for incorporation under the Act.


NSW Fair Trading takes into account a number of factors when considering if an association is or is likely to be engaged in commercial activities, including:

the nature and extent of the proposed activities, including dealings with the public
if the commercial money-making activities will be a major part of its operations
if the proposed activities will be undertaken in a normal commercial manner
if goods or services are restricted to members or available to the general public
if it is operating on a profit basis rather than a cost-recovery basis
if it is operating in competition with businesses undertaking the same commercial activities.
The Act also prohibits an association from providing pecuniary (monetary) gain for its members. A breach of the Act could result in:

cancellation of incorporation
prosecution
penalties.
An association provides monetary gain for its members if it:

carries on an activity for the purpose of securing monetary gain for its members
has capital that is divided into shares or stock held by members
holds property in which the members have a disposable interest.
Activities not considered as securing pecuniary gain include, where:

the association itself makes a monetary gain
the association is established for the protection of a trade, business, industry or calling in which the members are engaged or interested, but the association does not engage or take part in
the association provides members with facilities or services for social, recreational, educational or other similar purposes
members obtain monetary gain from the association in the form of remuneration (ie salary/wage) for a proper purpose
members obtain monetary gain from the association that they could otherwise gain if they were not a member
members compete for trophies or prizes in contests directly related to the objects of the association.