Gary's 3 Mega Bin System

[Crusty]

At this stage, it looks like it will require about 125 watts to drive the entire system. Not bad for three tanks and an all-up capacity of over 2000 litres

It gets a little more versatile if a hydroponic subsystem is installed outside as it can run on the same air system and much slower as the exchange rates in the hydroponics is not as important as the fish, so it will use less air. This is where it will come into it's own on an economy scale. I am really looking forward to fine tuning the air to achieve those results.

Further to that it can run on 12 volts with the right air pumps.

[RayH]

Hi Gary and Crusty,

That is a very impressive set up. It looks clean and sleek and to be able to drive it all with 125 watts, is pretty cool.

I asume that the 125 watts is purely the compressor power.

This all leave me with lots of questions because I don't understand it all so the questions will show my ignorance. But I would like to learn, so here they are.

Did you design and build the air-lift pumps and if so, could you provide the dimentions?

Where are you using gravity to move the water and where are you using the air-lifts?

What do you call the "Paul's Inovation" thingie? And how does it work? It looks like it may have an air-lift at the bottom of the pipe in the Mega Bins.

Are the Mega Bins new or 2nd hand? What do they cost?

Can you provide any details of your compressor? Capacity etc?

What is the diameter of your pipes? They look quite large.



Sorry if I am asking too many questions, but this is all pretty inovative stuff for a back yard environment and may be a significant addition to aquaponic thinking.



Longing keenly for answers, but hoping that they don't take up all of your week.
RayH

[GaryD]

Hi Ray,

That is a very impressive set up. It looks clean and sleek and to be able to drive it all with 125 watts, is pretty cool.

I asume that the 125 watts is purely the compressor power.

Yes......the air pump is rated at 125 watts.

This all leave me with lots of questions because I don't understand it all so the questions will show my ignorance. But I would like to learn, so here they are.

No problem......that's a major reason why APQH exists.

Did you design and build the air-lift pumps and if so, could you provide the dimentions?

Paul did the design work on the airlifts after he'd calculated lift heights and pipe diameters......he's best qualified to comment on that.

Where are you using gravity to move the water and where are you using the air-lifts?

The water level throughout the entire system is the same. The water only moves through the system because the airlifts pick it up from a common manifold from the sump/bio-filter and drop it into the fish tanks.......displacing water already in the fish tank.

What do you call the "Paul's Inovation" thingie? And how does it work? It looks like it may have an air-lift at the bottom of the pipe in the Mega Bins.

Paul will address the "thingie" and how it functions. There is no airlift in the mega bins themselves. What you can see attached to the centre drain is a 200mm airstone.

Are the Mega Bins new or 2nd hand? What do they cost?

They were new when I bought them. They cost around $300 incl. GST. They are available from People in Plastic at Archerfield......their website is here.

Can you provide any details of your compressor? Capacity etc?

We started off with a 200lpm blower but, while it puts out plenty of air, it is not big on pressure. We've decided to replace the blower with a diaphragm air pump which will move 125 litres per minute (at a much higher pressure).......at 125 watts.

What is the diameter of your pipes? They look quite large.

We used 90mm and 50mm DVW PVC pipe throughout.

Sorry if I am asking too many questions, but this is all pretty inovative stuff for a back yard environment and may be a significant addition to aquaponic thinking.

Yes......as backyard systems go, this one is quite sophisticated.....particularly in terms of what it will do.

Having said that, it is easy to get your head around once you get close to it. I'll put a water flow diagram together when I get the chance.

Gary

[RayH]

Thank you very much for your comprehensive reply. I'll look forward to the flow diagram and Paul's 'How the Thingie works'. :-)

Ray

[Shane]

I'll look forward to the flow diagram and Paul's 'How the Thingie works'. :-)

Ray

Yep, Just like Ray, I'd love further explanation to understand the operation better on both...whenever you guys get the chance.
The pic's & set-up look great, very, very compact.

Cheers,
Shane.

[Crusty]

That is a very impressive set up. It looks clean and sleek and to be able to drive it all with 125 watts, is pretty cool.

I am glad you like it. Permit me to ramble a little. One of the most important things to remember when planing the plumbing for any size system, is it only need a supply line, waste line and waste dump. Anything else makes it more and more complicated. To show you what I mean, below is the crayon drawing I sent to Gary to give him an idea of my intentions. Looks simple enough, yes?

Attachment 757

I asume that the 125 watts is purely the compressor power.

Yes. The important part of the air design is the pressure required to run it. While the 200LPM (90watt) blower ran plenty of air, it only ran at 7kpa from memory. This would not run one of the air stones at 500mm deep, it did run the air lifts but not that well. So, we reduced the LPM to 125 but now with 50kpa to push a bit harder.

Did you design and build the air-lift pumps and if so, could you provide the dimentions?

You are better to design your own air lift based on how yours is set up. A simple formula (here goes the math lol), is measure from where the air will be injected to the bottom of the outlet pipe (usually the lip of the tank). Divide that by the inside diameter of the pipe you would like to use for the air lift. The answer must be greater than 50. The closer to 100 it is the better flow you will get. Make sense? The design criteria is somewhat more complicated than that, but it will get you out of trouble. Here is another crayon drawing.

Attachment 758

Where are you using gravity to move the water and where are you using the air-lifts?

The gravity moves the water out of the tank, through the swirl/solids filter, through the bio filter. The air lifts put the water back in the culture tanks. This provides the required positive displacement to get the solids out the tanks without mushing them up.

What do you call the "Paul's Inovation" thingie? And how does it work? It looks like it may have an air-lift at the bottom of the pipe in the Mega Bins.

Simply it is an "outlet tray" I don't have a better name for it... "Suckeruppera?" How do they work? The pipe you see reaching to the bottom of the tank lifts water up using gravity. The tray creates a positive force so the water inside the tray is shallower than the outside (in the tank) which makes the water move to balance. This means it has to travel up the pipe to do that. The other pipe is simply an outlet connected to the waste line. This creates a air break to prevent a vacuum forming and draining the tank. There is no air lift. The thing you can see at the bottom is a 40x170mm air stone. Which reminds me I have to make a thingy for the stone... I never put air on the bottom of a tank as it will keep re-suspending the solids, which is not what. We want, we want the solids out of the tank not being "boiled up" in it. Keeping the air stone just off the bottom assists in creating a laminar flow (sweep the muck to the middle).

What is the diameter of your pipes? They look quite large.

Don't be shy about larger pipes. There is some thought that goes into choosing the pipe sizes as one size can never fit all situations. I like to always keep in my mind that some poor bugger is going to have to clean those pipes at some point. If I can make it so a bottle brush can be pulled through it, the job is only a two minute effort and being so, quick makes sure it gets done. It is called rodding in fish farms and is always part of the management of any system. We will show you how this works later on as the system ages.

Sorry if I am asking too many questions, but this is all pretty inovative stuff for a back yard environment and may be a significant addition to aquaponic thinking.

Questions are a good thing mate. Ask away. Part of the point of building this unit, for me anyway, is to showcase some very simple methods that are used at a commercial level and are very relevant to a back yard situation. Remember, commercial farms are designed to be efficient on power and labor. So if I can bring some of that to you guys, I am certain it will make your journey with aquaponics more a pleasure than a chore.

[RayH]

Thanks Crusty, the drawings help a lot and I comprehend it now (I think).

Yes. The important part of the air design is the pressure required to run it.

This sounds like one needs to 'suck it and see'. Is that right? or did you have some calculation (or prior experience) that you used to pick the the size of the 'blower'.

You are better to design your own air lift based on how yours is set up. A simple formula (here goes the math lol), is measure from where the air will be injected to the bottom of the outlet pipe (usually the lip of the tank). Divide that by the inside diameter of the pipe you would like to use for the air lift. The answer must be greater than 50. The closer to 100 it is the better flow you will get. Make sense? The design criteria is somewhat more complicated than that, but it will get you out of trouble. Here is another crayon drawing.

Gary had mentioned 'Air-lifts' a couple of months ago in one of his posts. That sent me off hunting the internet where I found a nice description of the calculations for sizing. " http://www.emt-india.net/equipment_t...irLiftPump.pdf ". I like your 'simple formula' much better.

Simply it is an "outlet tray" I don't have a better name for it... "Suckeruppera?"

Sort of like a standard CHOP fish tank outlet, only the anti-siphon air-break is very big. Big enough to take dead fish. Very clever.

Don't be shy about larger pipes.

Actualy I love larger pipes. It's the cost that scares me. On the other hand I am trying to become lazy, so I take the point.

Simply it is an "outlet tray" I don't have a better name for it... "Suckeruppera?"

"Wot's in a name? - she sez . . . An' then she sighs,
An' clasps 'er little 'ands, an' rolls 'er eyes.
"A rose," she sez, "be any other name
Would smell the same........"

I like "Suckeruppera". Definitely more descriptive than "outlet tray" or 'thingie'.


Anyway, the more that I see of the design, the more I think that it has gone beyond 'cool'. Maybe into 'way cool'. Teriffic and impressive job.

Thanks for the answers.

Regards,
Ray

[RayH]

Opps! My link to the PDF on complicated air lift calculations got mangled. It is......here.

Ray

[Crusty]

This sounds like one needs to 'suck it and see'. Is that right? or did you have some calculation (or prior experience) that you used to pick the the size of the 'blower'.

It is not really a suck it and see as I calculated around 16kpa (or psi can not remember) to run it. There are 13 calculations to get to that and I find them incredibly complicated. But you can suck it an see without too much trouble. Most diaphragm pumps will do the job on the pressure side of things. Keep in mind, with pressure comes power (watts). The liters per minute is relative to the amount of water flow you want after you take out all the other things you are running.

This system for example:
3 x air stones that require an ideal flow rate of 15 liters per minute @ 1M = 45LPM
Bio filter around 20LPM
This adds up to say - 65LPM
Then you need to work out how much air the lifts need.

Sort of like a standard CHOP fish tank outlet, only the anti-siphon air-break is very big. Big enough to take dead fish. Very clever.

I have no idea what that is Ray. What is it?

[RayH]

Thanks again Crusty.

It is not really a suck it and see as I calculated around 16kpa (or psi can not remember) to run it.

I thought you would have would have calculations. I guess my question was "What was your thinking that led to your initial choice?" You answerd that question even though I did not ask the question very clearly.

I have no idea what that is Ray. What is it?

My version of it is in this drawing. If you open the top of the anti-siphon pipe another 30 cm and rearrange the connections, then you get something exactly the same as the Suckeruppera, only different.

Attachment 760FT Anti-siphon outlet 2.jpg

In case my above attempt at humour is too bad, let me say that I recognise that your device has more functionality. Both items rely on gravity to push the water up the outlet pipe carrying the solids with it.

I love the fact that in your device one can extract large solids (fish, food etc) and provid a way to eaisly remove them even before they reach the swirl filter.


Ray