A cheap fishfood.

[echidna]

A number of comments have been made on the various forums about the high cost of the end fish if vegetable production is ignored. And while some people see the fish as the bonus, to others the veges are the bonus. The commercial pellets either as pellets or dust for smaller fish seem necessary until a certain size is reached. (I'm talking about native Australian fish here.) A number of home grown solutions have been offered - worms, BSF larvae, duckweed, azolla, lupins etc.

My proposition is that petfood chicken mince be considered. It costs about $1.00 kg in 100 kg lots, it's readily available, a waste product but suitable for our proposed end use. It probably contains a lot more fat nowadays than desirable (where do you think the skin of skinless chicken ends-up?), but coupled with other items like duckweed, stale bread etc. could make a good homemade extender to the more expensive commercial products. It's easily stored in a second freezer (along with BSF larvae and duckweed) and can be hand minced into fish sized strands/pellets with other items like vegetable wastes.

And by no means limit the idea to chicken mince. In different areas other pet minces are also available at a cheap price.

Comments?

[GaryD]

Hi echidna,

I like your idea about using chicken mince......particularly at $1,00/kg.

I think we've only just begun to explore the potential of alternative fish rations (and other backyard livestock rations for that matter).

Salman has already determined that his fish eat quail viscera (guts) so the sky's the limit.

Keep up the good work.

GaryD

[Murray]

The only thing some folk may have against chicken mince and the like is what was the diet of the chicken before it passed away. I would imagine that it would be possible that the chicken that makes it's way into pet mince would be the ones that were unfit for human consumption due to disease etc.
Some folk will not eat chicken meat period, because of all the antibiotics and the like used in that industry.
Still, i guess it may be possible to get good quality base material.

The pellets I use to feed my fish are fish meal, soy meal and some wheat meal. No land animal content. I find that is very important to some folk.

Land Animal Protein Free (LAP Free) - a pre-requisite for export product and consumer approval
· Fast growth and low FCR throughout all sizes

Crude Analysis
Protein Min 35 %
Fat Max 10 %
Moisture Max 10%
Ash Max 11%

Ingredients
Chilean Fishmeal, Wheatflour, Soybean Meal, Shrimpmeal, Squid, Aquamix,

[echidna]

The only thing some folk may have against chicken mince and the like is what was the diet of the chicken before it passed away. I would imagine that it would be possible that the chicken that makes it's way into pet mince would be the ones that were unfit for human consumption due to disease etc.
Some folk will not eat chicken meat period, because of all the antibiotics and the like used in that industry.
Still, i guess it may be possible to get good quality base material.

The pellets I use to feed my fish are fish meal, soy meal and some wheat meal. No land animal content. I find that is very important to some folk.

Land Animal Protein Free (LAP Free) - a pre-requisite for export product and consumer approval
· Fast growth and low FCR throughout all sizes

Crude Analysis
Protein Min 35 %
Fat Max 10 %
Moisture Max 10%
Ash Max 11%

Ingredients
Chilean Fishmeal, Wheatflour, Soybean Meal, Shrimpmeal, Squid, Aquamix,

I think it is State dependent as to what constitutes acceptable inputs for "pet-food" chicken mince. I don't believe that pre-dead, dying or sick birds are an acceptable input. However, I too am somewhat concerned about antibiotics. Thankfully Australia does not permit growth hormones, a much bigger problem.

I'd rather land based inputs in some ways to sea based inputs. It is much easier to transmit disease through the same genera. Most Australian freshwater fish are omnivores that will opportunisticly utulise land based animal protein in their diet.

With chicken mince I think I'd be more concerned about excessive fat inputs. Perhaps an admixture of kangaroo mince would be desirable if the price was right. A better meat is hard to find. Soy meal is starting to be GM which I dislike for many reasons. If we look with open eyes there are many sources of fish food that we all overlook. Your friendly local fruit and vege shop usually has a skip out the back full of reject food. Not fit for human consumption mainly for cosmetic reasons but quite suitable for fish food. Those fruit fly maggots in that apple are just extra protein for the fish!

I'm not opposing accepted wisdom, I'm just not prepared to accept it yet.

[Murray]

The kangaroo meat is a real possibility. And a good worm farm is a must. I have one of sorts. Harvesting the worms is a bit of a job.
There was some interesting discussion on Radio Australia last night re GM soy and canola. NSW and VIC are passing legislation to allow the planting of GM crops. Madness.
Naturally they had a precession of "Scientists" who said that there is nothing to worry about.
They also had a Canadian farmer who has been fighting the seed companies for the last 3 years in the Canadian courts.
He claimed that the GM crops were a disaster. Higher use of chemical sprays are necessary on these GM crops and after the third year yields drop off. Cross contamination happens if a GM crop is planted near a regular crop. This was the main part of his court appearances. The seed company was after him because they found traces of the gm seed in his non gm planted crop. Proof of cross contamination.
As you would expect, the farmer has to buy new GM seed each crop from the seed company.
Not long and there will be no regular seed left.
It is a real worry.

[echidna]

The way to beat Monsanto and GM crops is to be proactive. Any farmer not wanting GM crops needs to advise any nearby farmer using GM crops that they will sue for negligence and trespass under Rylands rule if their crops are contaminated. Then the mere presence of patented genetic material is proof of the negligence of Monsanto and the GM farmer and not the illegal use of GM material.

In five or so years time, there will be many farmers ruing the day they believe the higher yield stories of Monsanto.

I try and stick clear of rapeseed (canola) oil. It was never a traditional cooking oil, mostly used for industrial purposes. If I have a choice of two products, one containing rapeseed oil and the other a traditional oil, then the second will go into the shopping basket.

[Murray]

Evidently canola is good for making bio diesel.

[echidna]

There seems to be some evidence that high fat inputs are bad for native finfish. And I remember recently a thread on BYAP (?) where the fillet ratio was quite poor due to fat deposits. Anyone harvest enough Australian native finfish to care to comment? Just thinking through the concept of a homemade fish feed a little more. The food industry has lots of little tricks to manipulate percentages and not all of them are EVIL!

[Murray]

I guess it comes back to personal preference. I like using the pellets, it's convenient and the fish like them too.
I would much prefer to have a good worm farm to supplement the pellets, but it has not happened yet.
I found big fat deposits laid in with the gut of the fish I have cleaned and some fat deposits around the skirt of the fish, but none too much actually in the fillet area. Anyway, in the case of Jade perch and to a lesser extent Silvers, this fat is the good one "Omega 3" Highly desirable from a human health point of view. So why not a bit of fat in the fry pan.

I feel that the cost of the fish food is not an issue for me. I feel the issue is one of sustainability. I would like to get to a point where I could produce all that I need myself. I know that ideal is most likely impossible, but one has to keep trying to get as close as possible to the ideal.
There is a long way to go that's for sure.

[GaryD]

Hi Echidna,

I keep Jade perch so that's what I know best.

They often live in pretty ordinary conditions in the wild so I guess they've evolved as being efficient in the way that they use food.

In an Aquaponics system, they are fed regularly with a ration which is likely to be of higher protein and fat content (and in greater quantity) than they would obtain in the wild. They are also gluttons.....eating more than is good for them if the opportunity permits.

All of this conspires to have them lay down too much fat.

The other issues that I have with commercial fish rations are those of cost and sustainability.

I've already experimented widely with feeding Jades duckweed and soldier fly larvae. While they like BSF larvae, the fat content of the larvae (up to 35%) is an issue so we limit the amount of these.

I plan to extend my feeding trials to include a duckweed/grain/larvae/worms regime.

Gary