Is Aquaponics really the most economically way to grow anything ?

[arachdog]

Hey Ravnis,
Yeah I was aware that their are some fish that will assimilate plant protein. In fact a lot of fish can have at least some of their protein requirements met by plants and still get reasonable growth. Unfortunately the fish that will accept the cheapest diet also turn out to be the cheapest fish. It's called the markup system and to be honest I've never really understood why people put up with it. But basically you pass on all your costs to the consumer plus a % markup. So the more you spend on inputs the greater your profits (within reason obviously, people probably won't be happy paying 25% markup for shredded Mona Lisa pond lining. Although if it was marketed correctly, I wouldn't rule it out ). It's bizarre really.

Also it wouldn't surprise me, even with a low value fish like Tilapia, when you take into account interest on capital investment and all that, if it's still worth feeding them the high protein diet to get the 4 times faster growth.

[Kaduda]

My concerns at this moment is the return upon investment...

If I dump say $50,000 CAD into this project...How long will it take to recoup the investment?

One of the reason I'm looking at Tilapia is because I can grow my own food...Once I have things up and running, I want to keep the operating costs to a minimum...

For me to spend $3000 to put hydro in...I can spend the same..maybe a bit more for solar panels and never have to worry about a hydro bill...

For heat, I can use a wood boiler....I can go on my own place and cut all the wood I need for a season...I even have the space to store the wood to season it well...Something I've been doing most of my life for my grandparents and now my dad...Plus I can "borrow" his saw mandrel...lol...

[arachdog]

Thats something you will have to research yourself Kaduda. Unfortunately, not to many people are willing to share profitable business plans.
I live in Western Australia, and if had $50,000 (which is almost the same amount) and the land, quality water supply, planning permission, licenses etc. Then I think I would build a couple of marron (a type of freshwater crayfish) ponds. There is an insatiable market demand for them and the price is going up. $40-$60 a kg depending on the size, and a purpose built semi-intensive pond can produce up to 4T/hectare. But I can't tell you how big a pond you can actually build for $50,000 in Canada. Or what a suitable alternative to marron might be.

In australia we department of fisheries that actually provides a lot of information about suitable species.
http://www.fish.wa.gov.au/docs/aq/aq004/index.php?0308.
There may well be a Canadian alternative.

[Kaduda]

With my land being fairly flat...And the winter conditions here...I think that a greenhouse would be the way to go...Although I am also considering building a large dugout to water my cattle from and to stock trout in...Plus I may use it for geothermal...

I've already been talking to various forms of government...from the Department of Water Stewardship (Fisheries Branch) to Manitoba Conservation To MAFRI...

What I find funny is that I might have to do a risk assessment to see if my fish can escape into the ocean...And I'm smack dab in the middle of the country...Closet ocean for me would be about 1000 KM and it would be the Arctic Ocean...lol...

Just wondering if there has been success with having Tilapia in one tank and a crayfish (Marron) in a DWC with rafts above...

[moose]

On the crops versus fish which is the money maker. If you look at the two as seperate profit centers and the fish side sells the nutrients to th plant side does this change the profit out look for the fish?

[arachdog]

Just wondering if there has been success with having Tilapia in one tank and a crayfish (Marron) in a DWC with rafts above...

Not that I've heard of. I have heard of people growing silver perch in cages floating on marron ponds with good success. I think isolating the fish from the marron is important to stop them taking the marron apart during their molt cycle, but you may be able to achieve the same thing with plenty of hides. The other problem with marron is they don't do well when they are not in an outdoor pond. I think the problem is the diet. You can buy 'marron pellets' but its generally accepted that the marron don't actually eat much of the pellets directly, its more about feeding the pond.

On the crops versus fish which is the money maker. If you look at the two as seperate profit centers and the fish side sells the nutrients to th plant side does this change the profit out look for the fish?

It may reduce or eliminate the need for water changes. But water is actually a pretty insignificant cost in a typical RAS system. There is probably also some arguement that you could perhaps remove or reduce your biofiltation since the growbeds also perform this function, provided your in a climate where you don't need to shutdown your growbeds at night. Also if it was an indoor aquaponic setup with growlights then the RAS could potentially benefit from the waste heat as well.

[GaryD]

Hi Kaduda,

Just wondering if there has been success with having Tilapia in one tank and a crayfish (Marron) in a DWC with rafts above...

Freshwater crayfish have to access the surface of the pond/tank in which they live.....and they will eat the roots of plants if they can get to them.

Subject to your climate, you may be better to consider a species like Macrobrachium rosenbergii......aka the giant river prawn. I believe that Friendly Aquaponics grows them in their raft tanks.

Moose.....

On the crops versus fish which is the money maker. If you look at the two as seperate profit centers and the fish side sells the nutrients to th plant side does this change the profit out look for the fish?

Most commercial aquaponics systems that are fully integrated reconcile limited fish production in favour of plant production. Friendly Aquaponics' relatively low tech approach is a good example of this approach.

Those commercial aquaponics systems that are serious about fish and plant production tend to demarcate their aquaculture and hydroponics operations.

Often the only real integration is that they use water from the fish tanks to irrigate their plants. They may not take too much account of the nutrients in the fish water.....and the water may not even be recirculated between the fish system and the hydroponic growing units.......like Tailormade Fish Farms.

This is not a bad deal (particularly when compared to either aquaculture or hydroponics in isolation) but it does acknowledge that their is little scope for compromise in the integration.

In these types of systems, fish and plants will often have equal billing.

UVI seems to run counter to this but they have climate on their side......and, as far as commercial aquaculture or hydroponic operations go, UVI is still small "taters."


Gary

[arachdog]

Freshwater crayfish have to access the surface of the pond/tank in which they live.....

I've not heard that before Gary. Do you have a source? As I understood it, the only time a Marron 'needs' to access the surface (you can get massive walk outs in fact) is if the DO drops too low. Not to say they don't enjoy a night time wander in the shallows if its available but I wouldn't call it a requirement.

Most commercial aquaponics systems that are fully integrated reconcile limited fish production in favour of plant production. Friendly Aquaponics' relatively low tech approach is a good example of this approach.

Those commercial aquaponics systems that are serious about fish and plant production tend to demarcate their aquaculture and hydroponics operations.

Often the only real integration is that they use water from the fish tanks to irrigate their plants. They may not take too much account of the nutrients in the fish water.....and the water may not even be recirculated between the fish system and the hydroponic growing units.......like Tailormade Fish Farms.

This is not a bad deal (particularly when compared to either aquaculture or hydroponics in isolation) but it does acknowledge that their is little scope for compromise in the integration.

In these types of systems, fish and plants will often have equal billing.

UVI seems to run counter to this but they have climate on their side......and, as far as commercial aquaculture or hydroponic operations go, UVI is still small "taters."

Nice work Gary. That's a pretty good summary of the issues I was hoping to highlight with this thread.

[GaryD]

Hi Arachdog,

I've not heard that before Gary.

If I recall what I was told correctly, it has to do with moulting......and it applies to all freshwater crayfish. I've emailed someone who know much more about crayfish than I do.....to seek confirmation.

You're right about them leaving.....which is why you don't leave hoses and cables hanging out of a tank that is not covered. They'll just climb straight up them. The other problem is that predators will use the same hoses, cables and air lines to access the tank. We lost a complete tank of yabbies to a couple of little water monitors.


Gary

[Kaduda]

I've had one crayfish get out of an aquarium few years back...Water was 2" from the top...Found the bugger across the basement...Tossed him back in and he lived another 3 years...