Red Wigglers

[evan]

thanks for all the good information

I've done way more research recently than I thought I would ever have done on worms..

It seems that the variety I got are not the red wigglers but will still work for vermicomposting and will make great feed for my fish after they start reproducing.

They do reportedly grow slower, however they grow to a larger size. I can take the trade off as I want the larger worms anyways for fishing and feeding to my fish. I've read that the true red wigglers are actually really difficult to place on a hook.

As for placing in my grow bed, I will definitely do this. Many people in several articles have pointed out that these worms won't leave a food source, so as long as my grow bed is somewhat established I'm good to go.

[mornings]

It seems that the variety I got are not the red wigglers but will still work for vermicomposting and will make great feed for my fish after they start reproducing.

evan,

If at all possible, try to find out what they are. Depending on results, it might be important.

Thing is, of all the various species, all have different functions or they deal with their functions differently -- in the soil. And we know very little beyond what they do in the soil.

. . . I can take the trade off as I want the larger worms anyways for fishing and feeding to my fish.

Taking a few worms for fishing is fine if the specie serves the function in your system. Not sure feeding worms to fish makes much sense. The Worms are a lot more valuable than the fish. And, except for the occasional snack for your fish, taking enough worms out to make a dent in your fish food bill would be self defeating.

m

[evan]

Identification thanks to others and comparing pictures, I havefigured out they're Eisenia Hortensis.

As far as their role in vermicomposting. There's some debate, however the general consensus is that they will work.

Many people claim that they reproduce slower and are not as efficient at processing waste, other studies show otherwise.

My aquaponics system is so small it really wouldn't be a big burden on the worm bin if I supplement the fish's diet with them.

[mornings]

evan,

Thanks for the information.

Thing is, we really don't have any idea what worms do in water beyond what you see -- or how well they do it. The worms you have might actually be better than E.F for this purpose. Who knows?

I can and will ask Dr. Edwards for anything he might know. Even if it's speculation, it's the most knowledgeable speculation around.

One thing to look for is cocoons. If you find cocoons it means, of course, there are reproducing. When I told Dr. Brett Roe about my first experiment having lots of cocoons, he was genuinely surprised. I'm an engineer, not an entomologist I wouldn't have a clue either way.

But my E.F.s have been very re-productive in water.

I've had several people ask me about the business of worm selling. Anglers are not going to be very interested in E.F. But a larger worm might be worth selling. They go for a lot more per pound than fish! And getting worms out of gravel is really simple task -- even easier if worms are larger. Certainly make a lot better business with such worms than selling fish.

Thanks again,

m

[Ravnis]

I've been using the eisinia hortensis to "eat my garbage" for over a year now. They are a composting worm as well. Not as prolific as EF, but do the job. I throw my vegetable scraps and stalks of plants from replanting in the bin and they eat it well. They are marketable because of there larger size. Tilapia will eat them to as I have thrown a few here and there and it looks like a cartoon of someone slurping spaghetti.
The cocoons require moisture to hatch, so the flood and drain growbed provides a perfect environment too. I converted my beds to continous flow several months ago and happy to report that the worms grow and multiply in that too.

[DaveOponic]

When I clean my foam filters I find a lot of tiny red worms. these are apparently not earthworms but midge (like a mosquito) larvae. I have found earthworms on occasions when emptying growbeds but not in any great quantity. With a flood and drain system I wonder if earthworms can survive. On the lawn after a heavy rain, the worms rise to the surface and can be found in the top layers of the soil. In a well filtered gravel or clay grow bed would earthworms really have enough to eat in the absence of solid waste.
At the risk of opening up a can of worms what do you think Gary?

dave

[mornings]

Dave,

If you do not already know it, worms don't drown. They breath through their skin. I have worms in my tank that stay there continuously (I don't have fish, just worms). The only requirement is that the water have plenty of oxygen in it (they can survive on less oxygen than fish, so if you have fish, the worms will do fine in any event. Worms, as strange as it sounds, are better adapted to water than some fish.

Worms move to higher ground after rain because the water is poorly oxygenated or they are just looking for more food.

A flood and drain gravel bed is probably ideal for earth worms, maybe even better than soil. Fine for your fish too as they are not competing for oxygen.

The number of worms has basically to do with food supply -- their population and even worm size is pretty much regulated by availability of food.. Fish feces seems perfect for them. Keep in mind that if you were to decide to feed the worms directly, worms require that their food be pre-digested by animals or bacteria or both.

The tiny worms you mention may indeed be earthworms. They are almost microscopic when they come out of the cocoon. The way to find out is to take a few of them them and put them in some worm bedding with food.

As fish food, worms don't amount to much. It would probably take 8 to 12 pounds of worms (600 to 800 to make a pound) to equate to a pound of high protein fish food.

You ask: "In a well filtered gravel or clay grow bed would earthworms really have enough to eat in the absence of solid waste[?]. If you mean solids are filtered out, then, no, they are unlikely to do much or even survive well. On the other hand, if you have worms, why use a filter? The worms become a filter of sorts that convert solids into nutrients for your plants. They probably leave some solids behind but it would seem they are a very small, if they exist at all.

m

[Ravnis]

Those red worms dave talks about are actually larva. The ones I encountered have 2 "pointy antennas on the "head" end. Having them in the system is supposed to be an indicator of a very stable aquatic system. They are also known as blood worms and some people are sensitive to them. Fry love to eat them and they are a food source for recently hatched fry.

Since I doubled the worms in my system, I have to remove solids now on a monthly basis. I was having to do it daily prior to this. I highly recommend you put composting worms in your growbeds. They will survive in the growbeds whether flood and drain or continous flow. What you could try if still skeptical is empty the contents from your swirl filter into a growbed with worms in it and watch them add the nutrients to your system. The main requirement is that the solids need to stay wet.

[happer]

The worm in the container looks like a night crawler. To big to be red wriggler. In Kansas City i use to go to parking lots after a big rain and collect them. I would get 1 dollar a dozen. The mature ones will grow to stretch 8 to 10 inches. I was making 50 dollars a week collecting them when i was 12 years old.