Very Low watt pump

[gavinl]

Hi all

I am new to Aquaponics and was hoping for a little advice about pumps. I live in a solar house (240volt - although 12 or 24v could be hooked in directly) and as the pumps seem to be on most of the time (is that correct?), would like to get a pump with a very low energy usage. I noticed that one of the pumps on the site is rated at 75 watts, which would seem quite good, but 75 x 24 hrs adds up to quite a bit of energy.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

gav:)

PS: I take it that I'll need two pumps...would that be correct?

[GaryD]

Hi GavinL,

If your system gravity-feeds from the grow beds back into the fish tank, you'll only need one pump. If, however, your growbeds do not gravity feed and you use a sump tank, then you'll need two pumps.

The wattage of your pumps depends on how much water you want/need to pump. I have a 45 watt pump thatis rated at 4,500 litres of water per hour......and other one which is 6,600 litres per hour that is 110 watts.

How long your pump runs depends on the type of system configuration you opt for. For example, you may choose to use flood and drain gravel grow beds which you can set up to irrigate for 15 minutes in the hour....using an electric timer (with 15 minute increments). Similarly, if you use float valves, your pumps will kick in (or out) depending on the water levels in your various tanks.

Alternatively, you may choose to use autosyphons to control your pumping cycles....which will require a continuous pumping regime.

Gary

[Murray]

Hi Gav,
I use two pumps.
From the fish tank to the grow beds is a 240 volt x 700 watt x 15,000 ltrs per hour pump. It only runs once every 40 to 45 minutes and then the actual run time is 3 to 4 minutes. So the actual watts used is very small.
The other pump that moves the water from the collection sump back to the fish tank is 240 volt x 300 watt. It runs about every 5 - 7 minutes or so for about 3 minutes. That is, 5 to 7 minutes off then 3 minutes on.
My pumps are controled by float switches.
So, once again the actual watts used is really low.

I have a 2300 ltr tank with 4 x 585 ltr grow beds and one 250 ltr grow bed.
I also run another smaller pump on a seperate smaller system which is a 90 watt pump x 4000 ltrs per hour. I run that pump continuously....don't really need to.
Murray

[fishfood]

Hi gav my system now runs 2 1/2 min in the hr from 8.30 in the morning to 5.30 at night its an ex pool pump high volume the experts tell me the whole system costs $35 to $40 a year power to run

[Quietly]

Hi Gavin,
I am currently running one pump per grow bed. Currently only one growbed is being used but I have 2 in the system. I am using flood and drain and the pump in on continuously for 16 hrs/day. My pumps are 3000L/h with a 240V rating of 66W.
As you may now begin to understand the setup you choose combined with the size of the system and the way you choose to move the water through the system will ultimately decide the size of the pump you will need to complete the task.
As a guide only the manual for my pump gives the following data on their range of pumps (Waterwerks)
At 240V
750lph = 10.5W, 1200lph = 14.5W, 1500lph = 25W, 2000lph = 48W and 3000lph = 66W
Quietly

[GaryD]

Hi,

I should also have mentioned that I use a small 1000lph (10 watt) submersible pump to irrigate a one square metre gravel/expanded clay grow bed.....using an electric timer to switch the pump on for 15 minutes in every hour.

Gary

[gavinl]

Thanks Gary and Murray.

Sounds like I am jumpimg the gun and should wait until I design the system first - not long now until my book, cd and dvd will arrive. I reckon from both your replies that it will be possible though, which is great.

thanks heaps

gav

[gavinl]

Thanks also Fishfood and Quietly:)

Seems there are many approaches and a good design (like when building a house) is the most important thing.

Much appreciated

gav:)

[Murray]

Gav,
One of the Forum members, I think it might be Jimbo, runs his whole house..everything on solar and wind.
Perhaps he might jump in here and be of assistance.

Yes it is Jimbo....link to his thread...http://www.aquaponicshq.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17

He will have the knowledge......

[Jimbo]

As Murray correctly says my whole house, and the shed where the Aquaponics system is being built, runs on solar and wind power.
I will recap a little on my plans- I have the big 15000l/hour pump which Murray sells and the current plan is for it to just run for just 3 or 4 minutes an hour- total estimated power usage in 24 hours should be about 700wH ie less than 1kwH which would be about 10-12 cents a day if I were on the grid. Clearly this would not be a problem for town folk. The system is still in construction phase so I might have to modify this estimate when it really starts.
I was going to make a few other suggestions but really all that needs to be said has been in previous posts on this thread.
There is nothing quite like a strictly limited power supply to focus the thoughts on how best to use the least energy. Sun for heat if possible and gravity for water return are just 2 clear needs for my system. Maximum use of these forces will naturally reduce total costs of running an AQ setup.

[njh]

If everything is at the same level then you can avoid the need to lift water, reducing the energy needs to just moving the water around and oxygenation. This might bring your daily energy need from 700Whr down to 70Whr. With solar panels this means lots of savings on panels!

As I've said main times before, the most efficient pumps for low head are the axial flow pumps (think propellor in a tube). I think it would be an interesting project to work out the cheapest way to make one of these using off the shelf components. You might, for example, use a piece of 40mm PVC pipe and put a $2 shoppe toy battery powered sub in the tube powered via an external power source. It might cost $5 all up and move 10000l/hour at 0 head.

Alternatively, you might be able to use a computer fan, with the blades in a suitable piece of PVC and the motor mounted above the water line.

[daniel]

Where does everyone else get their pumps from?. Apart from the Internet, I have found submersible Pumps to be hard to find. Speciality pond shops sell them, but they seem seriously overpriced.

Thanks in advance.

[Murray]

Some can be found here http://www.aquaponics.net.au/category4_1.htm
These are quality Italian made pumps with genuine 2 year warranty.
Much lower cost pumps can be found on eBay for example. These are generally from China and the like...some are not too bad and some are not too good.
And low cost quality Italian pond pumps can be purchased for around 60.00 and upwards depending on the capacity of the pump.

If you are thinking of 12 volt DC pumps, these are avbl from about 20.00 and upwards, but are of low capacity and are not for continuous operation.
What kind of price point and capacity do you have in mind ?

[daniel]

Was looking at those pumps before.

My main requirements are as follows;
-As lower power consumption as possible. I prefer Flood and drain, but i still want efficiency for the time the pump is on, even if it is only on for 15 minuets every hour. I want to switch to solar for the house eventually.
-I want to be able to expand if necessary. (I have a small setup but will be expanding to a 3000-4000L pond soon)
-I want something that will last (buy cheap, buy twice) and am willing to spend extra on quality if it means the unit will last longer.

In reality, how long do most people expect pumps to last? When it comes down to it, would you be better buying a high volume pool pimp and running that for just a few minuets in the hour? Pool pumps can last for years..

[fishfood]

Was looking at those pumps before.

My main requirements are as follows;
-As lower power consumption as possible. I prefer Flood and drain, but i still want efficiency for the time the pump is on, even if it is only on for 15 minuets every hour. I want to switch to solar for the house eventually.
-I want to be able to expand if necessary. (I have a small setup but will be expanding to a 3000-4000L pond soon)
-I want something that will last (buy cheap, buy twice) and am willing to spend extra on quality if it means the unit will last longer.

In reality, how long do most people expect pumps to last? When it comes down to it, would you be better buying a high volume pool pimp and running that for just a few minuets in the hour? Pool pumps can last for years..
I have one and no prob so far

[Murray]

You are better off to buy a good pump/s up front, it is the least expensive in the long run.
The watts power burn is not much anyway. My big pump (700 watts) only runs for about 3 to 4 minutes every 45 minutes. So do the sums....it is not much power burn.
It is much more disturbing to have a pump failure and then find that your fish are all dead etc.
Yes pool pumps are a good option, but by the sound of it a pond pump or two will be ok for you.
Murray

[daniel]

Murray,

Alrighty then, From the link posted before, from your site, which pump would you recommend? I figure, In the grand scheme of things, a submersible pump is easier to move and relocate, ect

[Murray]

I use all submersible pumps. I feel it is easier in the end to fit up and to move if necessary....less noise.
I use a 15,000 lph pump for the fish tank to the grow beds, a bit of overkill really, and a 8,500 lph from the sump to the fish tank.
The 15,000 lph pump fills 4 x 585 ltr grow beds in about 4 minutes, not really necessary to have a pump that big, but by this summers end I will be running 8 grow beds off that pump and some NFT beds so it will be able to handle the job with ease.

[GaryD]

Hi Daniel,



-As lower power consumption as possible. I prefer Flood and drain, but i still want efficiency for the time the pump is on, even if it is only on for 15 minuets every hour. I want to switch to solar for the house eventually.
-I want to be able to expand if necessary. (I have a small setup but will be expanding to a 3000-4000L pond soon)
-I want something that will last (buy cheap, buy twice) and am willing to spend extra on quality if it means the unit will last longer.


I run a Rio 17HF (45 watt) submersible pump which delivers 4500 litres per hour at 0 head.....and about 3400 litres per hour at 1 metre. This pump has run continuously for about nine months without issue.

My small gravel/expanded clay grow bed is irrigated by an even smaller aquarium pump (10w I think) that operates on a 15/45 cycle. This little unit has been operating for the entire time that I have had an Aquaponics system......and it had been used by my wife in her aquarium prior to that.

I prefer submersible pond pumps.....in low head situations.....over conventional centrifugal pumps. They are more easily deployed and replaced.

For higher head applications, I'd opt for submersible sump pumps because of their greater lifting power.

What growing systems you plan to use with your 3 - 4000 litre pond?
What stocking density are you planning?These questions will have a bearing on the amount of water that you have to move......and the size of the pump that you'll need.

Gary

[Murray]

A really great pump for the beginning of any system is this one,

http://www.aquaponics.net.au/prod54.htm

A pump like this will never go to waste, even if you expand your system in the future.
I am running one at the moment in a small 250 ltr tank. I am keeping 6 medium sized Jade perch in there for the winter.
I am using the pump to run the water through a bio-filter and circulate the water in the tank.
I also have a 400 watt heater in this tank to keep those Jades warm during winter. Jades do not like the cold too much.
I also have in this tank a 20 ltr plastic drum with 40 + Sleepy Cod....Keep them warm in winter as well.
When spring comes I will put the Jades and Sleepys' into a bigger partitioned tank and use them to start another system.
This pump has a 3 year warranty, made in Italy...really there for the long haul.
Buy a pump like this...It is a sound investment in your aquaponics system.

[gavinl]

Hi Gary:)

I have just finished reading Joel's book and a fair few forums regarding low energy pumps and systems. At this point (still in the very early process), I would like to have one fish tank about 2300 litres serving up to four eventual grow beds. I would like to bury the fish tank (if adviseable) and have the grow beds about 40 cms higher (including 30 cm grow bed height) draining directly into the fish tank. If this is all possible, I would then like to use one submersible pump to flood and drain the grow beds.:) At this point you are probably shaking your head and mumbling neewbie:)

Besides any advice on the above configuration, I was wondering if the Rio 17 HF (45 watt) pump you use Gary, would be suitable for a 2300L fish tank in the above system.

Thanks and all the best

gav:)



_________________
"I run a Rio 17HF (45 watt) submersible pump which delivers 4500 litres per hour at 0 head.....and about 3400 litres per hour at 1 metre. This pump has run continuously for about nine months without issue."

[GaryD]

Hi GavinL,


I would like to have one fish tank about 2300 litres serving up to four eventual grow beds. I would like to bury the fish tank (if adviseable) and have the grow beds about 40 cms higher (including 30 cm grow bed height) draining directly into the fish tank. If this is all possible, I would then like to use one submersible pump to flood and drain the grow beds.:)

The arrangement that you've described is fine.

If you look at my thread Gary's System #2, you'll see that the two grow beds are positioned over the tank (and my tank is buried in the ground) in the way that you describe.

My Rio 17HF pump is set up in this tank at the moment and it fills the grow beds in less than 10 minutes. Depending on the rate of drain, it would probably fill four grow beds OK.

In the unlikely event that it did not prove to be adequate, you could simply obtain another pump. The total energy consumption for two such pumps would be 90 watts.....for about ten minutes in every hour.....and you'd have a measure of risk protection in the event of pump failure....the remaining pump would be enough to keep your system going until you sorted the problem.

This arrangement would provide surplus pumping capacity in the event that you wanted to run other growing systems in addition to your four grow beds. If the pumping cycles for the two pumps were staggered, you would also have better aeration in your 2300 litre tank......and the amount of water out of the fish tank at any given time would be halved.

Gary

[gavinl]

Thanks heaps Gary.

gav:)

[Murray]

Don't worry about asking questions GavinL, that is what this forum is for.

[gavinl]

Hi again :)

I was just wondering if it is necessary to run the pump at night in a flood and drain system.

At the moment I have the following figures for my proposed system:

Fish tank: 1500l
Grow beds x 3 = 2826l
Ratio = 1 : 1.88
Pump: Rio Hyperflow 17H (45watts per hour at 1m head)
Energy needed to flood: 30.75 watts per Hour (41 min) or 738 watts per Day
System: Flood and Drain (into fish tank)

This system although quite energy efficient would still be the the third biggest power drain in my house - first in the fridge/freezer and second my house water pump.

If I could use it in daylight only or at least for 16 hours rather than 24,it would make a huge difference and even allow for a larger system.

All advice appreciated

gav :)