Tank water insulators

[organicusrex]

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog_name=USPlastic&category_name=9362&product_id=20538

Quotes from the link above: "Spheres float on surface of liquid in open tank and thereby greatly reduce the exposed liquid surface area - up to 90%. Blanket of spheres also insulates heated liquid reducing evaporation and heat requirements. Reduces evaporation by 85%. Fuel costs 70%. All sizes are blow molded." Use black ones in a sunny spot and they will transfer some heat to the water below in the cooler months. A rather unique passive solar cover.

It's a possible idea for aiding in keeping the tank temps more stable or even for warming them up. These spheres come in white and black.

A versatile cover that allows access, gases exchange, feed will still pass through it and water flow, plus it can be made to fit any shape or sized tanks. Easily removed with a fish net if necessary. This company is located in America but I'm sure there's an Australian counterpart somewhere down under; that's what Google is all about.

Just brainstorming!

Dean

[anniefish]

Hi,

how about using ping pong balls?

[organicusrex]

If you can get them cheaper than $62 per 1000....then go for it....a ball is a ball is a ball, as long as they float!

[Jase]

I've heard of farmers using lots of empty plastic soft drink bottles on small dams to do the same thing!

[anniefish]

Hi Jase,

Good idea, recycling, do you know ir they have them empty or put a bit of water in them?


Annie

[bunya boy]

Annie,
3 star ping pong ballls cost about $20 a dozen! PET bottles cost nothing really! But consider the surface area, wind factor, ping pong balls made out of toxic stuff (just have to sniff them!) Celuphane or similar (forgive my spelling!) Not good for fishys! Especially the three star balls!

I have a developed a product similar to the Yanks "spheres" for stopping evaporation from free fluid surfaces (including gases), but have yet to prove and market it. I will be trialling it on my own system for evap. losses, temp control and lighting in the near future.

Keep thinking outside the rectangle!

Cheers IanK;)

[organicusrex]

Awesome IanK. I'd prefer something that's less toxic in every way.

Glass spheres are the only ones I can think of with no toxins as long as they don't break, but getting someone to produce them at a reasonable cost will be the big trick.

Then getting them from somewhere other than China is other trick with a hole in it. :confused:

It's always something an old friend of mine used to say!

[Jase]

Hi Jase,

Good idea, recycling, do you know ir they have them empty or put a bit of water in them?

Annie

I'm not sure, it just came out in a lunch time discussion with some work colleges the other day - but apparently the bottles can eventually break down in the sun and cause problems - dont know too much more about it sorry.

[anniefish]

Hi Jase,

Thanks for your reply. I'd probably only use them over winter to try and keep temps up. Have used milk bottles for plant pots for years, they last for ages.

bunya boy,

Sounds very interesting let us know how you go. What are your thoughts on green house bubble wrap, I was thinking of laying it on the water, leaving part exposed for ventilation?

Annie

[bunya boy]

Annie,
With regards to any water cover in direct contact or even above, if it can't allow full gas exit, you will have problems with ammonia build up. This was pointed out as a problem with fish kills elsewhere on the forum.
I think someone had a glass lid on the aquarium tank set-up and even with the small opening for tubes etc, the ammonia gas was condensing on the glass cover, dropping back in the tank and concentrating the ammonia levels resulting in stressed fish death.
My "sphere" system was originally developed to prevent excess evaporation losses in bulk fuel storage tanks, so I don't really think it will be usefull for FT's.
I'm thinking that a solid lid, which is stood off the top of the tank to allow free gas egress, will work really well. Both insulation (radiant losses will be blocked) and to prefent sun light (which promotes algae growth) reaching the water.
Just some thoughts.
Cheers IanK.

[GaryD]

Hi,

The other issue that I can see with sealing the tank up too tight....or with using a floating cover on the water surface.....is that it would inhibit oxygenation of the water (even faster than it would succumb to high ammonia levels).

One possible solution to keeping water at a reasonable temperature would be to vent a source of warm (relatively speaking) air into the top of the tank. This might include waste heat from a brooder (for example) or even air from inside of your house (which is usually a fair bit warmer than the ambient temperature).

I've even thought of putting an air pump underneath a brooder (along with the chicks) and exhausting the hot air directly into the water. While I have yet to test the notion, it seems feasible.

Gary

[organicusrex]

I had thought of a bubble wrap cover since I had used one to heat a swimming pool for a few days in the beginning of the season. It's good to know that there's so many knowledgeable and experienced resources here in this forum. I can scratch that one off my list for any future designs.

I'm with IanK on the spheres method being your best bet. Your return flow from the GBs isn't restricted and gases exchange freely too.

Has anybody on here been working on homemade evacuated tube heat exchangers? Combine a few of them in a parabolic trough reflector array to increase solar effectiveness. Then circulate some tank water through those babies in the cold months and you would have to make sure you don't boil your fish.

There's some YouTubes by some greenie guy who shows you how to make the heat exchangers and he uses Fresnel lenses, parabolic dishes and parabolic troughs to increase solar effectiveness of any homemade system. Some of his stuff is a bit strange but he's got some good basics that can be tweaked and possibly perfected. Here's his link on YouTube.com http://www.youtube.com/user/GREENPOWERSCIENCE Just like a lot of stuff on there you'll have to weed through his stuff.

[Ravnis]

I just floated stryofoam boards ontop of my tank, the growbed gives plenty of oxygenation and I have an outside airpump. I have a 900 gallon setup and this raised the bottom temperature I was readiing by about 3 degrees farenheight. I only covered about 60% of the fishtank surface area.

[organicusrex]

I'm just curious if you remember any of the other factors. What the air temp was and how long did it take to raise it 3 degrees F?

I had a sneaky suspicion that air pumps and GB circulation might alleviate the gas exchange issue as long as whatever covered the water had some gaps allowing ammonia to let off.

Under a plastic bubble wrap cover I can see how they might get trapped there but rigid Styrofoam boards aren't as flexible and gases follow the path of least resistance unless trapped in a pocket. IanK has showed us that ammonia is a gas that's lighter than air if it rises out of water to condense on a glass aquarium cover. If it isn't then the GBs should be able to remove it, I would think.

Barring any unwarranted environmental fears, I wonder if anyone has ever considered using potted cattails as a natural filtering agent in their tanks? Prof. John Todd at Woods Hole Institute did a lengthy study on the effectiveness of cattails and used them extensively in his Marsh System Water Filtration designs during the 80's and 90's. They absorb all sorts of nasty stuff and are delicious to eat in the spring when they're about 12 inches above the water line. Their roots thoroughly process toxins rendering them neutral as I remember from reading his material years ago. They taste a little like a cucumber, very palatable and good in a wild greens salad.

Sorry :o I meandered off subject a bit!

[HealerOliver]

This thread has me wondering if my planned use of plexiglass as a FT cover might cause problems.

The question is this: if evaporation condenses on the under side of the plexiglass cover, then drips back into the tank, does the plexiglass add toxins to the drip?

Oliver

www.aquaponicsusa.com

[46nto]

well how about styrofoam balls? And before you say that they will get everywhere or something, why not encase them with gladwrap or something. Use cellotape etc to make like a insulation mat - or better yet, why not some kind of rubber mat?

[organicusrex]

46nto - Since Styrofoam is used for hydroponic systems as a floating mat then just grow some more plants on your tank using a grow mat. If you have fish that will eat the vegetation your other option is to just put the mat on there and no plants so you'll get a good gas exchange. Or just float the Styrofoam balls since it doesn't appear to be a threat to the system.

HealerOliver - I think bunya boy answered your question in an earlier thread.

[Ravnis]

I'm just curious if you remember any of the other factors. What the air temp was and how long did it take to raise it 3 degrees F?



air temp was 60 oF high and 37 oF low. water temp was a low of 41 oF b4 and 44 oF after adding the boards. max water temp was running 55 oF. did not see an increase in max temps only in min temp. Added greenhouse after that and that made a much bigger temp difference.

[organicusrex]

Thanks for the data Ravnis.