Lock, Stock and four smoking barrels.

[gtpratt]

Okey dokey, I figured I may as well tell you all my plan and take any advice you would like to offer.

First I have bought (so please dont tell me not to :) ) a pump that will push a large volume of water quite aggresively around a large system. 15000/hr @ 2M

I intend to set up a small system with scope to enlarge therefore I will throttle back / aerate fishes (hope they like cyclonic environment :p )

I have purchased two new down grade fibreglass bath tubs, I couldnt go past them as they were $33 for the pair. On same shopping trip I bought 4 blue 44 gallon drums (the plastic ones) which I intend to turn into grow beds / fingerling enlargeners (is that a word?)

I also intend to push some of the water through a 90mm storm water and have hanging tomatoes/strawbs on the back neighbours fence.

I was wondering if I can I catch the pet fish from the pond and put them along with some pond water into the system when I have it set up to get it started?

Ummm I need to work out about light for the fish. I want them to be happy before I eat them. Do fish get bored? Hmmmm.

Now I see a plethora of fish food options, I wonder about making my own pellets and fingerling food, any suggestions recipes that work etc welcome.

That is a long enough post for my first try..

Regards.

Graham.

[GaryD]

Hi Graham,

Welcome to APHQ.

Since it's too late to tell you not to buy that pump, I might suggest that you should buy some much larger tanks. You will have trouble keeping the water in your four blue barrels once you start that pump.

You could keep that pump for your next system and buy a much smaller one to run your blue barrels and bathtubs.

Gary

[gtpratt]

Hi Graham,

Welcome to APHQ.

Since it's too late to tell you not to buy that pump, I might suggest that you should buy some much larger tanks. You will have trouble keeping the water in your four blue barrels once you start that pump.

You could keep that pump for your next system and buy a much smaller one to run your blue barrels and bathtubs.

Gary


He he he, I figured it would have some kick, I want to get some of those 1000 litre plastic drums but can only find realy expensive ones ($400 each) and these smell like acetone. I figure there must be a supply of cheap ones arond somewhere within driving range.

If anyone knows of one please let me know.

I will look at an additional smaller pump if I cant get bigger drums.

Kindest regards.

Gra

[Hamish]

I think you can get brand new ICB's for about $400. Second hand ones do come up on ebay every now and then for about $200. If you can get some that have had Molassas or other food products it would be best. Or soap product (as long as cleaned out well) - or even chlorine (again will need to be well cleaned).

[GaryD]

Hi,

I would opt for a mega bin over an IBC anytime.....but particularly once they get over $150. Mega bins have a capacity of 780 litres......they are 1162mm x 1162mm and 780mm high. They cost around $300. They will support weight on top, they are easy to clean and far more aesthetically pleasing than an IBC.......and they can be used outside without falling apart. IBC's that are not buried in the ground degrade in about 3 years.

If I could not afford the fibreglass tanks that I use, I would choose mega bins over anything else that's available. We raised our first couple of lots of Jade perch in these things so I know that they work well.

Gary

[Murray]

I am repeating what has been said before, sorry, But the cost of good equipment is minimal in the long run.
Don't muck around with rubbish or suspect equipment. It is just not worth it. In the excitement of wanting to get started it is easy to convince ones self that the low cost plastic fantastic will be good. I am not knocking using recycled materials. Go for it if you must , but make sure it is good stuff and you know where it came from etc. IBC's are fine , if you can get a good one for the right price, but why would you pay 300.00 for one of those when a few dollars more will get you a megga bin or a fg tank.

The best low cost recycled option are old bath tubs, very cheap, the only suspect thing that has been in one is somebodys fat bum. They are deep enough, strong enough and easily obtainable.
They are very ugly, don't do much for the look of tha back yard, but they are cheap and they work.

[gtpratt]

Hi,

I would opt for a mega bin over an IBC anytime.....but particularly once they get over $150. Mega bins have a capacity of 780 litres......they are 1162mm x 1162mm and 780mm high. They cost around $300. They will support weight on top, they are easy to clean and far more aesthetically pleasing than an IBC.......and they can be used outside without falling apart. IBC's that are not buried in the ground degrade in about 3 years.

If I could not afford the fibreglass tanks that I use, I would choose mega bins over anything else that's available. We raised our first couple of lots of Jade perch in these things so I know that they work well.

Gary

So... where would I find mega bins?

I have found I can get food grade IBCs in Sydney for $250 (plus travel etc).

We have decided to get biger water capacity so the fish dont get blown out of the bath.

Naturally all of the sudden we will find ourselves with the big system up front rather than a P O C system. still you all have proven the concept so why not?

Also has anybody tried waterbed heaters under these mega bins to keep heat input to the water?

I figure that cool room foam from the tip etc all around the bins and beds with a cover at night should keep most heat in?

Regards.

Graham.

[Outbackozzie]

Keeping the fish tank warm is not a problem - its when you pump that water into your big growbed radiators.
There is not really an efficient way to do it, unless everything is inside a greenhouse.

[GaryD]

Hi Graham,

Mega bins are made by Viscount Plastics for the horticulture industry.

I'd suggest that you contact Viscount Plastics and see who their Sydney agents are.

Gary

[gtpratt]

Hi there,

thanks for the advice I have found that there is a distributor in Queenbeyan next door to Canberra.

Prices are coming but I can pick up mega bins in sydney for a coupla hundred!!!!

Will keep you posted.. Also if I need to go to sydney to get some is anyone interested in Canberra in getting one/some? we could save transport costs?

Kindest regards.

Gra.

[zact01]

hi Graham

i have no expreence so i cant advise but i do wish you luck and hope you get so many veg/fish that you have to give them to frends. pickkies would be nice too :)

[echidna]

You can buy IBCs in Sydney for between $80-120 that have had stockfeed ingredients in them. The bloke sells them as non-potable, but I've looked up the MSDS and would be happy to use them for potable water after a couple of rinses (to get rid of the flavour). The plastic is not UV stable so they should either be buried or kept in a shed out of sunlight. And once you've cut big holes in IBCs they lose their resale value. If you're interested, I'll dig out the bloke's name and phone number.

I don't think that Megabins are UV stable, but they are far sturdier and certainly more presentable (an important consideration for many situations). If you can get them for only a bit more $$, I'd go for them over the IBCs.

[GaryD]

Hi,



I don't think that Megabins are UV stable....

While I don't know for certain what their UV resistance is, I assume that they must be someway toward being stable because I quite often see them in large stacks outside packing sheds and it seems unlikely that people would pay $300 for them only to have them degrade in the sun. I'm sure a phone call to the manufacturer would answer the question.

Gary

[Jason Palenske]

Well for plastic the UV stability is most generally totally dependent on color. White which actually is the least stable is most often used in indoor application, which is why pvc is white most often because it generally never sees the light of day.:D Now your darker plastics, like what storage containers of made of are more durable but also a little more impure I guess you could say of a grade of plastic, going back to other discussions of people using cleaned trash bins for food products. Plastic in general is safe for food, what makes it unsafe is the amount of manufacturing required to recycle it. That's why they place those recycling triangles with the number inside of it to show its recyclability. The lower the number the easier it is. Your generic music or computer cd is made up of a ton of trash but safe to eat off of once it's refined. No matter what the grade of plastic, or how easily it is to be recycled, the best way to improve it's longevity is to cover it, either with shade, although heat will still allow it to lose shape depending on it's thickness, a major reason for burying them and why the IBC's have cages around them. My suggestion would be paint it a dark blue or red, not black, or even better wrap it in something like a carpet material that will help insulate to prevent shape loss as well as make it easier to regulate your water temperature.

Hope this helps...

[gtpratt]

Thanks for that.

I checked out the megabin site and they have a ten year outside gaurantee. I figure they will do fine in the shed....

OK I am getting excited now. I just ordered two mega bins to run side by side they will be landed here later in the week.

My wife and I will start clearing out the storage shed which we are goint to convert into an aquaponics room (fish store and pump etc) the grow beds will naturally go outside.

I have some photos of how it is now and this will hopefully look a lot better once we have turned it into a fully functioning fish, fodder and fresh food farm.


The photos below are named according to what I wanted to say about them.

Did I mention the mega bins are coming....

Now in regards to the fish tank in the house, is there any reason I can't get a light tube running into the lounge room as it is a dark room anyway and then have a herb garden growing above the fish tank. it already has a bio filter and all balances are good. I could then get very young fingerlings and grow them up a little inside before transfering them to the outside? or just get more fish of the tropical variety?

What says you all?

[gtpratt]

Okey dokey, I am back into it....

Well the mega bins arrived and I have made auto siphons for the bath tubs.

Mounted the bath tubs outside of the shed (Tuula cleared out the shed).

Put holes in walls and pipes run back to mega bins.

Auto siphons work a treat.

Ummm connected up the pump in a haphazzard and temporary manner and found that it fills the bath tubs in about three minutes. Problem is I dont have enough grow beds for the amount of watyer in the mega bins.

I say this because the float switch, when set as short a lead as possible does not get to the switch off point.... If I adjust it to turn off then there is not enough height in the water to tun back on......

I am considering opening the float switch and modifying the histeresis, does anyone have any better ideas before I take this tack?

I was considering employing the 200 litre drums as temporary bulk water transfer containers to increase the drop in water level for the time being?

Ohhhhh impatience is not a virtue.........

Will keep you posted.

Graham.

[gtpratt]

Okay.....

So I figured out that if I use a $15 timer then I can use the float as a failsafe to ensure there is enough water in the mega bins to keep the fishys alive.

I tested the timer just now and it works well.

I have set one flood per hour from 6am to 7 pm each day. Can anyone tell me if this is enough for the Canberra region?starts to cycle?
Also.....
THe scoria has made the water really murkey... Will this be a problem? Should I flush the system before it

Kindest regards.

Graham.

[GaryD]

Hi Graham,

I'm unclear about why you need float switches and timers if you have autosyphons. Can you describe the water flow of your system?

Gary

[Outbackozzie]

Murkiness will clear as soon as the bacteria start to establish - the bioslime seems to grab any particles quite well.

I would run 1 cycle per hour 24/7 until the system has zero ammonia and nitrite. This will help to clear the water also.

[gtpratt]

Hi Graham,

I'm unclear about why you need float switches and timers if you have autosyphons. Can you describe the water flow of your system?

Gary

Hi Gary,

I have megabins at ground level, water is pumped from this into bathtub growbeds whose base is above the megabin. This is being periodically filled to "flood" level (about 1 inch below scoria level) the auto siphons then pour the water back into the megabins which shold be being airated at the same time.

The timer ensures that the grow beds get flooded and drained as described in many systems on this site. I gleaned most of these ideas from posts on this site.

Hope that explains it a bit better.

Graham

[Outbackozzie]

I run autosiphons on a timer also. The plants dont seem to mind the flooded period if the water stops before the siphon starts.

[gtpratt]

I run autosiphons on a timer also. The plants dont seem to mind the flooded period if the water stops before the siphon starts.

But surely if the water stops before the siphon starts the siphon would not start?

Or are you guys siphoning INTO the grow beds??

Regards.

Gra.

[Outbackozzie]

As I said - the plant dont seem to mind the occosional time when the water flow stops before the siphon starts. The bed just stays partially flooded until the next cycle.

[gtpratt]

As I said - the plant dont seem to mind the occosional time when the water flow stops before the siphon starts. The bed just stays partially flooded until the next cycle.

OK looks like I missed that one :D IS this beneficial to them to have a period of wet roots? or is it just a sort of random thing?

Kindest.

Gra

[GaryD]

Hi Graham,

Thanks for the explanation.....it confirmed what I thought was happening.

Drill a couple of small holes at the base of the syphon pipe inside the auto-syphon......like Hamish has done. This wil ensure that any water that remains in the bed once the pump shuts off will gradually drain.

The question remains.....what is the purpose of using timers (or float switches) in conjunction with auto-syphons.....other than to save power?

Plants will grow better if they are in a continuous flood and drain situation.

Gary