backup system

[bushboy]

When power fails the main problem (initially anyway) seems to be aeration?

if so - is there any reason why the air pumps that switch from ac to dc
wouldn't be a good option?

I have found a web site offering a 15W 10l/min 5hr battery backup if the mains fails - 4 outlets
- otherwise runs on 240v -I think the brand is Resun ( bit hard to make out) .
Obviously there is a risk that the battery is stuffed when you want it to work but it could be tested easily occassionally

Other option seems messy - switch, battery, charger, dc pump

My thinking is to have a ac/dc air pump which would continue to provide aeration until I could get a small generator going

Tom

[Hamish]

Im sold on the 12v bilge pump, switch, charger and 12v battery setup - mainly due to the ammount of water flow and airation that a bilge pump can supply and the length of time it can run. I have seen others using those battery powered air pumps - and if you think they provide enough airation and water flow then go for it.

[Murray]

Hi Bushboy,
There is a 240 volt and battery combo unit avbl from aquarium shops. It sells for 79.00
The idea is good, but after the 4th one failed I got my money back and gave up on the product. Good backup is one of the most important parts of an AP system. Believe me, if the 240 volt goes down and there is inadequate backup....fish will die. If that happens when you have put 6 or 9 months into the fish, it is a real heart breaker. One area that is not worth short cutting on.

[djs-sa]

well i have a very stable power supply as i live next to the old mobil oil refinery and our suburb runs from thier feeder supply. but yesterday we had 2 power outs 1 at 8am and another at 9.30am both lasting 30seconds max.
so i was dissappointed as my back system didnt get a real test run.
i run a back up sw. charger and batt. with etra pump in tank too, so i'm with bushboy on this 1, there could be something like the air pump u mention but qualitly would be my concern.
so i use what works, but it is a pumping system on its own so to speak,

bushboy if ur talking gennies, why not an atuo start on mains fail?

Thats what we're going to use whole system can still run, minimum rewiring etc, etc, even a small fluro light as it is normaly dark when power goes down

[Dufflight]

I've been playing with the idea of a wind driven paddle wheel. Also the idea of having a couple of 200ltr blue drums filled with water that can slowly dump into the tank. My smaller system only has goldies so hopefully they have enough o2 to last for a while. I always have a 200ltr tank with an air stone running in it to get rid of the chlorine. So I can always move them into there. Never played with battery backups.

[Matt Trevatt]

Has anyone just used a UPS power supply? I know that you can add in extra batteries, auto switches over, gives a alarm, runs 240V. I think you can hook into the 12 volt externally.

[Hamish]

No - but I do use the auto switch Murray sells and a battery and charger - works so well. You can add a buzzer to unit to sound if you want.

[djs-sa]

yes i run my air pump on 1 but isnt worth buying 1 tho i already had mine:)

[Outbackozzie]

Instead of running an air pump and air stones, I have one pump that circulates water between my tanks, aerating as it goes. This pump runs off an inverter, drawing power from a couple of landcruiser batteries, kept charged by a couple of small battery chargers.

This pump runs 24/7 - that way I know if something goes wrong - before a power failure and 200 dead fish.

It only requires 2 wires to be connected to a battery. I feel this may be a lot less messy than a whole heap of dead fish in your tank.

200 fish (trout) cost $200 to buy, $50 of food, and 6 months to get to plate size. A 4 hour power cut (can happen easily in winter or summer) will kill the lot. An inverter and battery setup can be done for $250, and can supply 10 hours of backup easily.

[Sunshine]

From experience I have killed many fish from lack of air. I lost some simply because the airline got warm in the sun and blew off the fitting. I am a great believer in Murphy's law.

I use three air pumps, one AC/DC , as well as the failsafe switch and bilge pump. Also have one of those Aldi $99 generators to cut in if needed.

Each has multiple airlines and stones in each tank. So if or even two fail there should always be air bubbling in the tank somewhere.

Call me paranoid.

[Jason Palenske]

Why not just a small back up pump running constantly on a small solar panel with battery backup.?Sounds to me like something like that would do until power came back on.

[fishfood]

But what happens if the power is off at night

[bushboy]

-battery works hopefully!

I have gone with the bilge pump/battery/switch formula
but still am going to get a ac/dc aerator as well - thinking "can't have too
much aeration stuff on hand if it hit's the fan at some stage"

Also still to get a small generator as well - I guess there is treatment for
obsessive/compulsive aerators?

[bushboy]

help please from those with knowledge of electricity

I have purchased an Exide hd 12v battery - says it has a 330 cold crank amp capacity

I already have a solar panel - 20W 1.14Amp on the back sticker
and a Solar controller - 4.5A 12V that I have used previously to charge a 12V 22A deep cycle battery and then to run a small pump

The question - can I hook up the panel/controller to this larger battery
ok and will it charge it successfully?

Thanks for any replies

[djs-sa]

There are batteries designed 4 solar power storage.
ATM i'm using a car battery but connected to a 240v trickle charger and works fine.

So if u replace the 240v with solar it will work like mine anyway because mine chages at 12v 1.25amps.

[djs-sa]

just checked my battery and it's 350CCA (cold crank amps)

[gtpratt]

[QUOTE=I have found a web site offering a 15W 10l/min 5hr battery backup if the mains fails - 4 outlets
- otherwise runs on 240v -I think the brand is Resun ( bit hard to make out) . [/QUOTE]

You could get a small UPS Uninteruptable Power Supply for a computer, these have a built in charging circuit for the lead acid battery and are not overly expensive compared to losing all yer fish.

They also can have an alarm for letting you know when the power is out.

Kindets regards.

Gra

[Murray]

The small solar panel might charge the battery, but very very slowly, and it will only bring it back up if it has not discharged to far. Batteries that have been discharged to a very low level need a good boost to get them back up to full charge and a very small solar panel will just not do that.
Also, the panel will only deliver to it's full ability for a few short hours in the middle of the day.
The mains trickle charger of similar capacity as the solar panel, has a better chance because it will be running around the clock.

On our backup systems we use a very smart technology mains battery charger that has a max capacity of 1.6 amps. But we use that based on the presumption that the standby battery will not be called upon all that often and then for only short periods of time, say two or three hours outage.
If your power outage looks like going for 24 hours or more, say, after a really bad storm and the whole district is off line, then a small gen set will be the only real option.
Small gen sets capable of running a couple of small pumps are very inexpensive these days. I saw some in the B store the other day for 125.00 each.
I already have a very old but very good diesel 5 kva gen set sitting in the corner of my greenhouse all topped up with bio diesel ready to go.

I feel that you need a battery big enough to hold the backup air or pump system for 5 or 6 hours. Enough time for you to get home from work or wherever and start the gen set. If you go away for a weeks holiday or similar you need to have someone look in on your fish anyway...and know what to do if the worst happens.

[Outbackozzie]

Yep, what murray said.

A 350CCA battery wil be around 40 AH, this will give you 20 AH of useable capacity.

20AH via an inverter will run a 4500lph 65 watt (240v) pump for 4 hours.

A good idea when running the backup system is to have it running continuously, that way if the system fails, you know it has - before the mains fails.

Use at least two small smart battery chargers - they are not too expensive, and provides more redundency.

[Jonathan Dyer]

Deep-Cycle Batteries Guys!

[Jonathan Dyer]

If anyone installs a battery backup system and requires longer operating times:

1st Option install another 1 or 2 batteries in parallel ie 3 x 12v batteries (more amp hours = longer running time) oh and Deep-cycle too. Cold cranking amps really has nothing to do with amp hours.
2nd If buying a genset look for one with a 12v battery charger incorporated into it (leads will connect to your battery and then can charge up your batteries giving you a longer running time if need be)

Oh and Murray if your diesel genset is going to sit there for a long time drain that fuel out for heaven sake it will only do damage to your engine, if it gets the chance to go stale it will thicken up like glue and running on that will cause excessive wear.

[gtpratt]

1st Option install another 1 or 2 batteries in parallel ie 3 x 12v batteries (more amp hours = longer running time) oh and Deep-cycle too. Cold cranking amps really has nothing to do with amp hours.


Also, having lived in a solar powered house in the bush about 20 years ago (yes we were radical) It is really important to:
1. Not cycle the batteries too deeply. (Aim for no more than 5% discharge if possible)
2. Keep batteries fiully charged.
3. Bubble the batteries from time to time to avoid stratification
4. keep batteries OFF the cold floor
5. Keep batteries electrolyte levels check.
6. Top up batteries with really distilled water (includes home distilled)

Oh and dont let the cows get to the batteries, they seem to like the salts.

He he he.

Regards.

Gra.

[Outbackozzie]

You obviously have too much money then JD :D

For our purposes - occasional backup power, deep cycle is not required.

A 200AH deep cycle battery costs over $600. http://www.energymatters.com.au/fullriver-sealed-lead-acid-agm-battery-12volt-200ah-hgl-p-140.html

A 200AH normal battery costs under $250.

You will only discharge the battery slightly maybe twice a year...why pay the extra for a feature you are not going to use?

[gtpratt]

Re deep cycle batteries, If you are keen, the best thing will be to become friends with your local telstra chaps and/or baterry dealer as hospitals and telecom have to maintain a redundancy level that is quite high therefore you can often pick up 6v 2-300m AH flateries that have serviced rthese systems for 3 or 4 years however theyt may well have never been cycled or rarely at best.

In the past I have bought these for $20 or $30 each and have found that they offer unbeleivable value for money in regards to backup systems. We used ours as a new limb on our solar house power grid.
:D
Regards.

Gra.