Tomer from Karkur

[Tomer]

hello good people
new here on the forum, and just happened to read about Daniel's graywater system. sounds great. i just wanted to tell about something i added in my home, which is a fat seperator for my kitchen water.
the water from the sink flow into the bottom of a blue plastic barrel (120 liters i think). the water exiting are also from the bottom of the barrel, but there is a physical seperator between the inlet and outlet (just a piece of plastic). this causes the water to flow in, rise a bit (maybe 20-30 cm) and circulate some before they exit through the out pipe. as oils, soap and fat in general have a lower specific gravity than water, they will float and accumulate at the top of the barrel, to be removed into the compost bin once a year or so. it's very simple, really, i can send a sketch if any are interested.
from the seperator i have the water flowing by gravity into two consecutive old bathtubs filled with gravel, and planted with papyrus, reeds, lemongrass and a type of bamboo. i do not have a clearwater pond before my water flows to an avocado tree, but it is a good addition, with fish, watercress and freshwater mussels as the best indicator for water quality you can get.
it's a great feeling to do the right things...
keep true to the 3 main R's - Refuse (what you don't need), Reuse (what u can), Recycle (all the rest)
regards,
Tomer

[DaveOponic]

as oils, soap and fat in general have a lower specific gravity than water, they will float and accumulate at the top of the barrel, to be removed into the compost bin once a year or so.

Huh? Why would you put fats and oils in the compost bin? Golden rule of composting .... no fats or oils.... they stop the rotting process.

[Tomer]

Hi
well, although the "rules" say no meats, fat & Dairy products, i find that is for 2 main reasons: 1) not to attract animals, vermine, etc, which can be solved easily enough by covering your pile well, and 2) not to "overheat" the pile, meaning having to much of a good thing. this can be solved by building the pile carefully with lots of dry leaves or dry grass laid upon the layer of kithcen waste (the carbon on top of the nitrates). i also find spreading a thin layer of local earth every few layers gives good results. anyway, for me it works fine, but you are right - some care should be taken, so i put extra dried leaves and do not put the whole fat-cake (that is what it resembles) as a whole but break it down a bit. there is a fantastic mulch of micro-organisms that is easily prepared and does wonders for the compost pile, i will happily send you the 'recipe' if you wish. it is an blend of phototropic & lacto bacteria, together with yeast and sugars, that acts as a catalist to the whole process.
Tomer

[Murray]

Hi Tomar,
Where is Karkur ?

Searching Google Earth it comes up in Sudan ?

[Tomer]

Hi Murray
yeah, i does come up in Sudan.. well, i'm not that far off. Karkur is a small town in the upper parts of Israel. dry climate most of the year, dusty, breeze from the mediterranian... olives, dates, figs.
i am very keen on getting my own aquaponics system going as i watch with envy (of the good sort, the kind that motivates you) the systems posted on the forum and on your website. unfortunatelly, Downunder is a long way from here...
i have managed to get a 1700 litre plastic round black tank, and for growbeds i cut in half a 1000 litre white plastic container, the kind that is cased in a metal cage, so i guess i have 2 x 500 litre growbeds (before i add the substrate, which i thought would be Tuf, a brownish airy lava pebble). still deliberating which pumps i need, and what size the sump tank need be. will very much appreciate any advice. by the way - has Gary's new edition manuel come out yet?
regards,
Tomer

[Murray]

Very interesting Tomer.
Where you live will benefit very much by the introduction of Aquaponics.
Yes Gary's second edition is now available and has been well worth the wait. Comes with a CD with additional photos etc.

Pump sizes can be quite small. Our newer systems are all running on much smaller pumps. The use of auto siphons in your proposed system will keep it very simple and reliable.

[Tomer]

Hi Murray,
as you say, our little part of the world is at a need for smart, productive, water saving aqua / horti culture methods. there has been great improvement over the years in these fields, and aquaculture becoming a big business. nowadays there are even a few farms that grow fish organically, or at least they do their best at it.. nothing beats growing your own at home, though. i am aiming for Tilapia as my starting fish, them being durable and tough + quick growth rates. other popular fishes are mullet, carps, baramundi and sparus auratus (sorry don't know the common name).
in my area especially peoples are realizing the neccessity to return to a communal healthy life style, we already organized an organic produce market - day once a week for 150 families. if i can spread the word of Aquaponics, and motivate home grown produce, i've done my share, or that's what i reckon.
I will be looking forward to recieving Gary's manuel, that will solve many problems, i'm sure. but can i ask - what do you mean by auto siphons?
regards
Tomer

[anniefish]

Hi Tomer,
Your ideas are interesting, you obviously think outside the square - you don't just believe what you are told. I think you'll like it here, there are a lot of people like you. Let us know how your system is going.

Ann

[Tomer]

Hi Ann
thanx for the support :).. i know i would LOVE it in Australia, i spent a fantastic 6 months travelling all over your beautiful country, and took a ramblers oath to return. one day. one day..
what can i say? the modern square is becoming so unbalanced and well, plain silly, how can people not think outside of it? who can eat those waxy tastless fruits in supermarkets? processed meats? fish pumped with more steroids & hormones than a WWF wrestler?
but i'm barking up the wrong tree here, all of youz share these same thoughts.
i'll gladely send photos and surely ask many a question.
be happy
Tomer

[Hamish]

there is a fantastic mulch of micro-organisms that is easily prepared and does wonders for the compost pile, i will happily send you the 'recipe' if you wish. it is an blend of phototropic & lacto bacteria, together with yeast and sugars, that acts as a catalist to the whole process.
Tomer
I would love to know more about this Tomer. Would also love to see some photos and a sketch of your grey water treatment system :)

[Tomer]

Hi Hamish
be glad to send-the-blend.. just this morning i made a batch that i will be giving my orange tree, which is showing some stress signs.
i have it in hebrew so the translation will take a wee while, but you'll get it.
i like the way you do things

[Tomer]

Hi Hamish
sending you some photos of the gray water system. basically it's 2 bath tubs filled with gravel & water plants (there are bathtubs under there), after passing through a fat seperator, and then continuing to water a tree or some papayas. for the shower i use the banana circle, which in my case is a papaya-pumkin circle, where the water pores strait out into a hole in the ground filled with compost and mulch. they love it..
but hey, all this came from down under, the revered bill mollison...

[Tomer]

Hi Hamish and Everyone
i attached a file explaining how to improve the soil in your garden - well worth the effort!
hope you think the same
Tomer

[Hamish]

Thanks for all that info Tomer - very interesting. I am looking at buying some land with a small house on it with no access to town sewerage so making use of waste water like this will be important to me - thanks again - I will study your photos :)

[DaveOponic]

Tomer, very interesting mix. Not really necessary for me as I live in Brunei, hot, humid, tropical conditions. I do a fair bit of composting and I build compost tumblers from recycled 200 litre PVC drums. I have sold quite a few of these to make some pocket money.

One of the most effective compost accelerators I use is Chicken poo, readilki available here as Chicken is a staple.

I also scrape leaves and rotten debris off the floor of adjacent jungle in front of my house. This rotted down matter contains probably most of the microbials you have described ... not sure about lacto baccilus though... there are certainly no shortages here of fungi, bacteria and bugs as there may be in a drier climate... you are in Israel right?

Dave

[fishfood]

Dave your area sounds nice we would all love to see photos of your area and your projects [compost tumblers ect] [ we all love photos]

[Tomer]

Hi dave
yup, in the holy land.. i'd love to visit brunei. i love the south east asian region, but world politics and religion still have their say, i'm afraid. but we are traveling to Papua New Guniea in a few weeks...:)
like you said, in the tropics you can probably plant a broom stick and it will sprout.. in our climate the earth needs all the help it can get, humidity being the toughest challange, as it is hot & dry and water isn't abundant. this is even more a challange because my wife has a knack for tropical plants and fruits (olives, grapes and figs don't really do it for her..). now is our 4th attempt at growing a mango tree. oh well.
those tumblers sound very interesting. i had a few people asking me to make them compost bins but i admit i just shacked up an airy box and explained the right way of building the pile. some more 'high-tech' info will be great...
now i'm attempting to put together my first aquaponics system, still deliberating the equipment and piping. when i recieve Gary's manual that shuld set me on the right track, i assume.
the microbial mix is also great for greywater systems, so maybe give it a try one day.

[Tomer]

Hi Hamish
working on a sketch for the greywater system i have. will send it over soon
tomer

[Hamish]

Hi Hamish
working on a sketch for the greywater system i have. will send it over soon
tomer
Thanks mate - looking forward to seeing that :)

[DaveOponic]

I made a compost tumbler for myself as we were having problems with monkeys and other animals raiding the compost heap for leftovers. I looked at a few designs on the web and decided to use PVC pipe to make a light strong base. A few people started asking me if I could make one for them. Since last year I have made and sold about 20 of these. the PVC drums are easy to come by and have usually contained biodegradable detergents.

The "composta" takes about 4 weeks to produce a good dark mulch that I use on the lawn, in seed raising beds and on pot plants. We don't have any garbage collection service in our kampung, so I try and recycle as much as I can. We have a lot of leaves with a backyard full of fruit trees, durian, rambutan, mangoes, starfruit etc.

Dave

[Tomer]

Hi Hamish
not a work of art, but hope you get the idea..

[Murray]

Excellent drawing Tomer. Very useful. Thanks. I may set one of those up in the near future.

[Hamish]

Thanks Tomer. Very helpful!

You say 'make sure you have a hole in the pipe entering the barrel so air can push the water down' Where is this hole located and what size?

Does anyone know of any useful plants that can grow in the bathtubs that can also be used for either food or canes for plant stakes? Perhaps bamboo?

[Tomer]

Hi guys
Hamish, i meant that just as you exit the house wall, where the pipe gets an angle or somewhere around there, just drill a small hole in the pipe (i use a 50mm (2" i think) grey pipe).. i learned the hard way (many nights of stink) that obviously without the small hole, the only place for air to enter is either the kitchen drain or the end of the system, which is 20 m away and underground.. and i was surprised water didn't drain through the sink. one tiny hole - a much happier wife.
you can plant herbs like lemongrass or mint. bamboo is an option (will get really tall) though you might have the roots clogging the pipes. i forgot to mention this in the sketch - on the pipe entering the bathtub, it is wise to fit a larger diameter pipe that is longer - kind of like the bell top on the bell siphon - that protects the water pipe from getting roots into it (you'd be amazed how resourcful and determined reed roots are).. i fixed it on the sketch as well (in red)

[Tomer]

Hi Dave thanx for the pix. you are definitly a handy man.. where do you place the air holes? on the sides?
looks really good. isn't wood as a base material cheaper though?