HydroSmart. Anybody seen it?

[wey2go]

Hi! Just curious about this HydroSmart technology. See: www.hydrosmart.com.au

Interesting especially this trial for Barramundi:
http://www.hydrosmart.com.au/pages/urrbrae_trials.html

Looking forward to hear any experience or comments.

Cheers.

[DaveOponic]

Interesting but I am a bit sceptical that a couple of coils around the pipes emitting varying frequencies can result in the improvements in water quality claimed. Then again if you had told me a few years ago that I would be growing organic vegetables at home from water in my fishpond, I would have been sceptical too. Often it is the simple things that we overlook or disregard in favour of high tech solutions.

I'd like to know what frequencies are used, once I know that I can try it at home. Is it high frequency, low frequencies?? Does it work by the same means as ultrasonic cleaners or mist generators?

I bought one of those mist generators last year, hoping I could build a Hydroponics table with fine mist delivery of nutrients. After a week the ceramic plate was buggered. The Hydro water just ate a hole in it. They work well with distilled water but also tend to overheat.

I'd be interested too to know more about this idea.

Dave

[djs-sa]

i think it will work as good as they claim dave dont know about making the box at home, buy one and then u can copy and test if u want multiple systems

[Jonathan Dyer]

Yeah guys they do work, they work similar to fixed raw magnets charging particles of salts these then loose there bonding ability of other nutrients and ‘sticking’ to the soil hence, get leached away in a sort. The HydroSmart to my knowledge is just using power to generate an electromagnet to condition the water perhaps it is stronger than raw earth magnets I don’t know. I will be needing to install a system such as this soon to my irrigation water I have been looking at the hydrosmart (80mm one) for a while now or raw earth magnets, one or the other I guess what is the cheapest but they are suppose to work if I have any luck in the near future I will let you guys know.

[wey2go]

If HydroSmart is reducing the bacteria count, isn't it bad if the "good" bacteria is also reduced?

[Jonathan Dyer]

I think you will find in this instance they are just talking about algae growth, molds and other fungus commonly found in underground water. I think that nitrifying bacteria are much smaller than what the system is capable of ‘conditioning’ so should not affect the cycle in an aquaponic system. The bacteria count is only reduced due to the fact that the minimum partial size of what algae needs to bond to is reduced more so hence, algae cannot bond to such partials in order to grow and therefore, growth is reduced considerably. I hope this makes sense.

[djs-sa]

this is more for groundwater but it could be adapted to what ur needs are as i understood?

[wey2go]

If HydroSmart is based on "magnetic" water treatment ideas, I am sceptical after reading articles such as:
http://www.chem1.com/CQ/magscams.html

[Hamish]

I find it very hard to comprehend - it seems to have some real advocates though.

[molphyschem]

This thread shows the interest that exists in the Hydrosmart product. Beginning recently when I read of it on the Hydrosmart website, I share this interest, and will trial the technology for water recycling in a nascent industry that grows algae. To begin with, controlled trials wil be done in a lab setting, to test whether reduction in the numbers of algae and other microbes may occur. Due consideration will be given to the hydrological circuit layout advised by Hydrosmart's producers. I figure if I can apply conditions that make algal numbers reduce, then I will also be in an improved position to make algae grow, when those conditions are flipped. If anyone else has advanced or ancient technologies that could facilitate freshwater recycling, such as probiotic bacterial mixes, tried over a period of a decade, I'd be really happy to hear. - Bob, Microbiologist

[wey2go]

Bob,

I have tried BioWish before. Did not test it systematically but have the impression that it improves my pond water condition.

See: http://www.biowishtechnologies.com/

[GaryD]

Hi,

I read some of the testimonials and the reports on the impact of the system on the aquaculture facility at Urrbrae Agriculture College. The product seems to have no shortage of advocates and it has been tested in some interesting situations.

I've read about lots of excellent filtration and other water treatment products but a cost benefit analysis precludes their use.

I've requested some prices from the company. I'll keep you posted.


Gary

[molphyschem]

Thanks Wey2go, on your tip off I've sent a mail to Biowish on their webserver. They even have an Australian office
Suite 2, 49-51 Eton Street
Sutherland NSW 2232 Australia
which I guess is how it comes to be in Australia. Their specs say the strains were isolated from mangrove mud in Thailand by Dr Chantawichayasuit. Ive requested more info. I guess Ill undertake a written review of probiotics then choose some. Many thanks for the tip :)

[molphyschem]

Thanks Gary, yep it seems to be taking off. Ive offered to be a conduit to achieving some objective analysis in sceintific journals. Paul Pearce who runs it, is very open to this if people are wanting to do control tests, rather than just documenting before and after. Maybe tell him that u spoke to me
His email is:
Paul Pearce <paul@hydrosmart.com.au>
I'm not sure if I'm breaking forum rules by posting an email address
:)

[arachdog]

I'm very dubious that this product can deliver all of its claims. The reduction in scale seemed the most reasonable claim which I think is very rarely a problem in aquaponics anyway.

This particluar paragraph caught my attention:
Both bio-films and stains are trapped by the mineral deposits (scale) that builds up on our sinks, pipes, ponds, and drains. By removing the scale there is no longer any substrate for stains and bio-films to adhere to. The same process is responsible for progressively cleaning up ceramic and stainless surfaces that are in contact with the treatment water.

To be honest it sounds like a ridiculous claim to me, but if its true then it can't be good for a bio-filter which relies on the establishment of a good biofilm.

Heres another claim in the same boat:
As HYDROSMART removes all mineral deposits and reduces all particles to below 4 microns, there is nothing for algae and mould to form on, or cling to.
Once again if true this sounds detrimental to an aquaponics system to me. 4 micron particles are almost impossilbe to filter and would take a very long time to settle. The result being that suspended paticles continue to build up in your water increasing your BOD and eventually they will start affecting the functioning of the fish's gills.

Finally, this statement here really reeks of snake oil to me:
The resonance treatment stays active in the water and breaks down the large mineral crystals, already in the soil, into tiny sub 4 micron non-reactive particles.
It almost akin to homeopathy, as if the water itself is capable of storing the energy needed to break down particles for extended periods.

I welcome the scientific studies into this product and I hope they can be conducted as quickly as possible before significant amounts of people are ripped off.

[molphyschem]

Arachdog and others, I'd work on the basis that microbes are compromised only while inside the Hydrosmart coil/s, but not affected when in the pond/culture vessel. Biofilms that are truly immobile would not encounter the magnetic field, as they wouldnt leave the culture vessel. From peer reviewed scientific literature, electron spins are arguably more critical for photosynthesis than for respiration, so algae ought to be affected more strongly than bacteria. I'm staying less knowledgable (on the fence) on particle size reduction for now, cause of not knowing whether that involves biological aggregates, or mineral ones, or a combination. It will be easy enough to generate tests for particle size though. The important thing is to replicate everything in real time, and have one setup that has the Hydrosmart and one set up that doesnt, then compare outcomes.

[arachdog]

Arachdog and others, I'd work on the basis that microbes are compromised only while inside the Hydrosmart coil/s, but not affected when in the pond/culture vessel. Biofilms that are truly immobile would not encounter the magnetic field, as they wouldnt leave the culture vessel. From peer reviewed scientific literature, electron spins are arguably more critical for photosynthesis than for respiration, so algae ought to be affected more strongly than bacteria. I'm staying less knowledgable (on the fence) on particle size reduction for now, cause of not knowing whether that involves biological aggregates, or mineral ones, or a combination. It will be easy enough to generate tests for particle size though. The important thing is to replicate everything in real time, and have one setup that has the Hydrosmart and one set up that doesnt, then compare outcomes.

Its sounds like your interpreting the claims from this company in a similar manner than many interpret the bible. Your glossing over the many absurd claims but still seem to be convinced that the overall message remains valid. Still at least your mind isn't totally made up, and as you said many of these claims should be easily testable. I just hope that when the facts come in you don't resort to redefining words like 'day' to maintain this companys credibility.

[molphyschem]

Yes indeed, some balance is present in the forum

[GaryD]

Hi,

I received the following from Hydrosmart......


Hi Gary,

Thanks for the enquiry, we produce a poolmaster which will treat the aquaponics environment in a non chemical manner and these units provide stable water for healthier plant growth and fish growth with less bacterial biofilm and bio mass issues.

Overview: Hydrosmart is a new way of solving old water problems. A lot of issues faced with water supplies is caused by elements and minerals combining with each other to form crystals or attaching themselves to other surfaces in the form of scale and breeding biofilms/bacteria. Hydrosmart uses resonant frequencies, to not only neutralize these bonds, but also to break existing bonds bringing these elements back into solution and / or greatly reducing their chemical reactivity.

These resonant frequencies have to be generated extremely accurately and at very high speed and it has taken advanced microprocessors and programming to bring this technology to be able to successfully, and environmentally, treat water.

Versions: -There are basically two versions of the Domestic Hydrosmart systems available, the Standard and the Enhanced Output (EO). The Standard system treats lower concentrations of mineral content, where as the Enhanced system is designed to treat higher concentration levels.


Size range and Pricing: - Systems are priced according to the pipe diameter you require;

The poolmaster range for Aquaponics is

25 mm : $ 1,995 30 mm : $ 2, 295 and 40 mm $ 2,495


(plus around $150 - $250 for packing, insurance & freight depending on your location and which unit you choose)

Additional information:-

· Units run off standard mains voltage (approx $10 per year) or can be battery or solar powered.
· There is no reject water stream and no ongoing maintenance costs.
· Units are prefabricated onto a PVC loop and installation is simple with most customers being able to self install the system using standard plumbing fittings with exception of the Digital 20 mm unit which comes in copper.
· Hydrosmart uses a atomic resonance technology, using resonance frequencies to disrupt the bonding abilities of minerals present in the water, reducing the chemical reactivity thereby eliminating the negative effects of scale, iron or salinity.
· This process also allows ‘problem’ elements in the water to be converted into beneficial nutrients by making these elements bio-available to plants, crops and animals.
· The technology allows for the use of saline water at a salinity level of 3-4 times the current threshold for plant/soil types as recommended by the Department of Primary Industries.
· The system and the treated water does require to be installed away from any electro-magnetic interference such as pumps, motors and power cables (generally a minimum of 2 -3m) as these can distort or diminish the highly accurate Hydrosmart resonance frequencies.

Please have a look through the attached information and feel free to give me a call if you have any other questions or would like to talk further through your specific application.

Your etc.


I have to say that (aside from anything else), given the size of the systems that I operate, the cost is more than I'd invest.

For that sort of money, I'd be using swirl tanks and bubble bead filters (and pocketing the change) to optimise water quality.

Gary

[DaveOponic]

It sounds like an expensive scam to me. I just spent an hour or so googling. Most of what I found was the companies own information in various disguises. The company operates out of Thailand and claims to have isolated the unique enzymes from mangrove swamps in the Gulf of Thailand (?) While the basic principle sounds plausible, couldn't I just use the bacteria and enzymes that are freely available to improve my compost?

I recently attended an agricultural exhibition here in Brunei where one of these snake oil merchants tried to sell me a bag of magic enzymes to make my compost rot faster. At a dollar for a kilo, I might have tried it but this company was asking $ 75 for a kilogram of coconut coir that was supposedly infused with the magic enzymes/bacteria.

I noticed that Biowish is also selling beauty products and cosmetics. The Asian market is huge with very little regulation. In the last few years products containing mercury, lead, arsenic and other toxic ingredients have been discovered.

Dave

[arachdog]

The increase in Dissolved Oxygen would be due to the chemical bonds with the water molecule being weakened by Hydrosmart. This allows the oxygen atoms which contain neutrons and therefore a much stronger gravitational attraction to attract each other, this configures the two much smaller hydrogen atoms, which have only protons and no neutrons to point outward. Which in turn leaves the hydrogen bonds free to bond to more of the available oxygen, thus progressively increasing the levels of dissolved oxygen in the water. We believe this may be very significant in aquaculture applications.

Wow! Is there anything it can't do ? Will it do my tax return for me?

[Ravnis]

http://rc.bipc.org/fanni/maghale/5-Int'l.%20Studies/FDA%20Report%20on%20Pseduscience%20Technologies.pdf

Might check this out before spending big money on this. I'm with Gary on this one, for the money some extra filters and growbeds would be a better use.

A fool and his money are soon....

[arachdog]

http://rc.bipc.org/fanni/maghale/5-Int'l.%20Studies/FDA%20Report%20on%20Pseduscience%20Technologies.pdf

Might check this out before spending big money on this. I'm with Gary on this one, for the money some extra filters and growbeds would be a better use.

A fool and his money are soon....

I think Gary has actually been too generous in his comments on this one. The implication is that if it was cheap it would be a great product. Personally the more I read about this company the less inclined I am to pay them anything. Or indeed brake if I saw their CEO crossing the street..

[GaryD]

Hi,

In the absence of knowing the full story, my view is that I'd spend the sort of money required for the product in other ways.....like filters that I know will work.

I never got as far as even considering the possibility of whether it works or not. The price is a deal-breaker so whether it works or not is a moot point.

If it's a scam (as suggested by the list provided by Ravnis) it's snared some interesting victims.....including an agricultural college that does aquaculture and a shire council.

Gary

[bart]

hydrosmart? the magic enzyme is in fact yeti poo and if this company can find enough yeti to harvest this wonderful substance their on a winner