If you had to start again

[fishfood]

If you had to start again what would you do different [this subject was posted on byap forum and some good idears came to light] so now heres your turn
For me think 3 times and do it once
Put tees instead of elbows so you can extend
deffinatley design towards shift pist
Think of the size you want then build it double

[Murray]

It is a good question FF.
I have started new systems and experimented along the way and I am still learning new things, so I can't imagine actually starting again. It would only possibly be a shift in direction.
Perhaps an example is, which fish species is best for me to keep.....I am still making up my mind.....I started out with Jades and have now gone full circle back to Jades.
I feel that is what is so wonderful about Aquaponics....there are so many ways to "do" it. Always something new to learn.

We don't get to use very many acronyms here on this forum...it has not been the norm, so please expand on "shift pist" Where did this originate ?

[fishfood]

Hi murray chift pist means [Constant height in fish tank] pist[ Pump in sump tank] i belive the phrase was coined by either joel or michael ferrini [american byap member] the whole system will run on one pump and even with power or equipment failers the fish tank will always stays full I have one running in the glasshouse system i know of a nother one thats running 3 3000 litre fish tanks with 2 pumps in the sump running the one set of grow beds one pump runs 2 4 6 8 10 the other runs 1 3 5 7 9 or alternate hours
I will be viewing this next week and will post photos

[Outbackozzie]

My small 4 barrel system in CHIFT PIST, small pump from sump, up to tank, overflows into beds, constant flow back to sump.

Any big system that I build in the future will be this design.

[Murray]

That water flow model is common in commercial systems. The system we built for Martin that he installed in Mildura is operating that way except that there are 3 pumps in the sump. There is always one pump on standby and two in operation at any time to provide some security for the system.
The water flow model is excellent but often too difficult for most ordinary householders. (getting the levels right etc)
For a home system where the home owner is a bit handy it is a very good idea, and would work very well.

[Jonathan Dyer]

Is that system using gravity to feed back into a sump?

[Outbackozzie]

Yep, gravity from fishtank, through beds, back to sump.

[Murray]

Yes JD,
All the water travels to the sump by gravity and is lifted back to the fish tank/s by the pump/s located in the sump.
A much larger sump is required for such a system. Sump has to be big enough to hold the volume of water that would collect if the pump/s stopped for whatever reason.
An added benefit is that the sump can be used as a fingerling tank if so desired.

[GaryD]

Hi,

What is the benefit of such an arrangement, aside from the fact that you can rear fingerlings in the sump tank?

Gary

[Hamish]

The only benefit I can see (and im not sure it is really a benefit) is that the water in the fish tank does not fluxuate as the grow beds fill and empty. And perhaps the other benefit is being able to have a fish tank that is higher than the grow beds - again not sure that is a real benefit or just something that might be good for some locations.

[fishfood]

Heres a drawing for the ones who just cant grasp it

[djs-sa]

if running large fish stock numbers eg highly dense stocking tank staying full is a great benafit

[Jonty]

My call on starting all over again.

1. Win Gold Lotto or Powerball.
2. Hey you, I want this and this here, all plumbed up with electrical connections.
3. Turn on the switch. Wait til it cycles.
4. Put in fish and veggies.
5. Eat same.

Regards
Jonty

[Jonathan Dyer]

I’m with Garry on that one. In my system there in no low or high water mark as I’m running a continuous flow system. Why add to the cost of things keep it simple don’t try to over-engineer it, I know it is still relatively simple but anyway. But in some cases it would be quite suitable its just a matter of preference.

[Hamish]

Murray - you use sumps in some of your larger systems - what is the difference between how you plumb yours and the SIFT PIST set up?

I think the venturi drains are a good idea - especially the one that plumbs through the side of the tank. Simple way to keep the bottom of the tank clean.

[Hamish]

Heres a drawing for the ones who just cant grasp it
FF - can you add the sump, sump pump, grow beds and water flow direction arrows to the drawing? I think that might be where people are getting stuck.

[Outbackozzie]

My take on it.

http://wa-donaghy.smugmug.com/photos/312602564_g8n9M-L.jpg

As fun as siphons are, I can currently see no difference in plant growth using either cont flow or siphon.

Disadvantage of above system is it needs to be running continuously, this can lead to the fish tank water getting very hot on warm sunny days (30 deg c +).

A siphon system on a timer with larger pump, can be run overnight only, greatly reducing the heat into the fish tank. Vice versa in winter.

[fishfood]

ATM i am working on a plan to re plumb all mine to shift pist using a 1000 ibc for a sump

[Martin A1]

Hello Folks,

I am back! Sorry for my long silence. I love the "chift pist" acronym and idea of starting again from scratch.. if it makes sense!

Interestingly here is a design I started out with but then changed to the more conventional method (for a few reasons). I clearly had too much water to grow bed ratio at that time but it did work. Rather than a sump I actually had a fish tank with enough capacity to fill the grow bed via a large fish tank with CHIFT (the main one any way). This set-up with a bio filter would allow you to grow plenty of fish I reckon. Adding a NFT system under continuos flow would also be good too.

Murray I am also interested to read your comments that you have gone full circle back to the Jades. Why is this? Last time I was here you were going crazy on the Murray Cod?

regards
Marty

[Jim Bedford]

Hi Martin,
That's similar to the system I'm trying to set up, but can't get a flow control valve. Am I right in thinking that's a solenoid valve? I was told today that they don't work with less than 1M head. I have a submersible pump in sump, and want solenoids before and after the growbeds. Any ideas? My 120 Murray cod are doing well in the interim system I've got, but I didn't envisage having difficulty getting the solenoids. Not sure either, whether they'd be able to be operated with one of Murray's Sentinels?
Any thoughts gratefully received.
Cheers
Jim B

[Martin A1]

G'Day Jim, Not sure on all the correct plumbing terminology mate and at the time I did this drawing I definitely had no idea. I'm not sure what you mean by solenoid?
The flow control valve I had on my system was a simple poly plastic ball valve type set-up. Mine was put in with 2m of head but I have a solid 3,000ltr per hour pond pump. It simply allows you to control the flow rate so that when running your sump pump on a 15min timer you can set it to not overflow for too long and run your sump tank dry. The forgiving thing in this design is that it simply just overflows back into itself although there is a lag. In fact, I found that the overflow set-up acted like a leaf skimmer in a swimming pool (but put the leaf into my grow bed, which was easy to gather up in the one spot).

This design also allows you to create a swirl in your main tank when you pump the water in. This gives the fish some exercise (current to swim against) and gathers the solids together at the bottom of your tank and someone on the forum was also looking to recycle this energy (somehow?)

PS in the design you need to make sure that you set-it up so that the system does not syphon back on itself after the pump cycle ends. You just need to make sure the pump hose stays above the CHIFT mark. Can get a bit noisy but helps aeration!

[Jim Bedford]

Thanks Martin,
I think I'll forget the solenoid idea and look at a simpler valve. With regard to harnessing the energy imparted by the return water, I had wondered whether it is possible to set up a micro-hydro generator and keep back-up battery systems charged. All too complicated for me, I'm afraid, but interesting.
Cheers,
Jim

[GaryD]

Hi,

With timers, autosyphons and float switches, I see no need for solenoid valves.

The best kind of plumbing is the least kind. The little systems that Murray and I developed are conspicuous for the fact that they have very little plumbing and what they do have tends toward being failsafe because it's all inside the tank and bio-filter arrangement. This way, even if it leaks, the water will run back inside the tank.

The flood and drain function on the microFish Farm is controlled by an autosyphon. Extra grow beds can be easily connected to the fish tank and, even if the tank level drops, it doesn't matter much because it will only be for a matter of minutes. Once the autosyphons kick in, the water rushes back in to the tank in seconds. My fish seem very happy with it.

The principal benefit that I see in so-called CHIFT PIST arrangements is that you can connect several fish small fish tanks to a sump and the nitrate levels will be even across the entire set up......and you can also set up a central swirl tank to remove the fish solids for the entire set of tanks rather than doing it on a tank by tank basis. The downsides that I can see include the need for a sump tank, lots more plumbing and, in the event that you contract a disease, it will be in all of your tanks rather than a single one.

Gary