Bushboys new system

[bushboy]

Hi all - registered yesterday - this forum is a great source of information

I am going to see an aquaponics setup tomorrow at a nearby suburb but
so far I am still in the planning stage - my rough ideas are to use an already purchased 500l water tank
(on special at B -actually bought 2) for fish and 44 gallon drums cut in half long ways for grow beds.
I know they will probably rust out fairly quickly but they are here on my property and were cheap (as in free!)
I think 4 grow beds initially for this water volume?

My wife and I already grow quite a bit of vegies/fruit and we have 3 chooks. Harvesting pumpkins/cauli/tomatoes/
lettuce/citrus at present
Aquaponics looks way better system though
Fruit fly is a pain around here but Wild May and Eco natralure seems to keep them down ok

Bushboy

[Hamish]

Welcome!

Can you tell us more about the Wild May and Eco natralure? Sounds interesting.

Make sure that the tanks you have purchased from bunnings are food grade - or safe for potable water.

I looked as some round bunnings tanks on special ($70 I think) green with lids - and was warned they were not for potable water.

Cheers,
Hamish

[bushboy]

Hi Hamish - the tanks don't specify food grade or suitable for potable water
I realised this after I had got them home - is there really a problem with leaching of nasty chemicals (or is it a function of our paranoia?)

re fruit flies - they are a b..dy nuisance -they even sting my citrus fruit.
My basic programme for control is to have 4 bait stations on each corner of my orchard which is the size of a basketball court approx. At each station I hang a container with about 2cm of "Wild May" - this is a pheromone that attracts the male fruit fly - they proceed to drown in the liquid. For the females - Eco Natralure is another product that you mix up (10ml to 60ml Water) - this I paint on to my bait station posts weekly - this works as the female fly needs a protein feed prior to mating/laying the eggs - she feeds on the lure which contains a bacterial toxin (can't remember the name) that kills her. Tuesday is my fruit fly day - it only takes a few minutes to check the 4 Wild May traps and paint on some new Eco Natralure. It is a pain that the Eco Natralure needs to be done weekly but I have found Wild May on it's own is not enough

The whole fruit fly thing is quite interesting and there are other solutions
including bagging your fruit - I refuse to use any sprays on my fruit.
Plant hygiene is also important - picking up fallen fruit and disposing of to
try and reduce them breeding

Hope this is useful and not telling you all something already well hashed

[Hamish]

Not 100% sure if it is paranoia or reality on the non food grade situation of those tanks. I think some tanks are made with recycled plastic which may have something to do with it. Others may have more ideas than me on this. They are nice looking tanks and very cheap :) I thought they would make nice fingerling tanks for my system which is why I was interested in them.

Regarding the fruit fly - thanks for the detailed description. Is it possible to put the Eco Natralure in a container like the male attractant thus avoiding having to reapply each week?

[bushboy]

Hi again Hamish

the tanks I probably won't use now - I can use them readily elsewhere in
my garden . Means I'll need to get something else - probably 1000litre size better anyway - probably will lash out and buy a "proper" one

I hadn't thought of putting the liquid Eco Natralure into a container -
the male trap needs a 5cent sized hole to enter - a bit like goldilocks
-too big and they fly out again - too small (they don't like their wings touching the sides of the hole) and they won't go into the trap.

It is quite a good idea - the EcoNatralure dries out - it smells and has the consistency of liquid cow manure - they actually say to spray it on the base of your fruit trees - I actually paint it onto the posts of my bait stations that have a small corr iron "lid" to keep rain etc off/out of my traps

Since being diligent with both ingredients my rate of loss to fruit fly is way less - we picked some Lemonade fruit this am and they were all fine
whereas last year they would all have been stung and had grubs in

The bacterial toxin is spinosad - my brain finally clicked in!

[Murray]

Have a look at this thread,
http://www.aquaponicshq.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283&highlight=black+fly

The Black Soldier Fly also helps control fruit fly in an area.

[Hamish]

My BioPod seems to be breeding vinegar flies - seems the Black Soldier Fly larvae have not yet worked their way to the top of the heap yet - but they are not far off it - I just went out and looked with a torch and the whole top layer of food is moving - so I think they will burst through in the next couple of days and devour any vinegar flies, egs or opposition larvae that cross their path.

The liquid that collects in the jar at the bottom of the BioPod really smells - and I am wondering if a little of this mixed with water and sprayed on fruit and plants would deter pests - or perhaps attract them?

It seems that the BSFL are being used for all sorts of things - they are even processing them for make up and skin care because of the antibacterial secretion they give off. Maggot makeup!

Anyway - would be interesting to see if a spray made from the liquid would do anything positive for plants and fruit if sprayed on - any thoughts Gary?

[Jim Bedford]

Hi Hamish,
I was quite into aerobic/vermi digestors years ago and, although I have no experience of the Bio unit you use, from what you've said I'd suggest you've got too high a veg to BSF larvae ratio at the moment, probably due to the cooler weather. This results in an area in the digestor becoming anerobic, the liqiud from which is putresible waste. I wouldn't use it as a biocide, nor as a 'vermi-liquid' as some people were prone to do. We used to pour it back onto our system, unless it was already too moist and dust with a very small amount of lime or hardwood ash. I'd look to dispose of your green waste elsewhere for a few days, or until the system looks in balance.
Cheers Jim

[bushboy]

Thanks for the info re BSF larva Murray and Hamish - I'll get that going as well as I have
access to plenty of stable manure from a neighbour. I inspected an existing system last week
- it looked one of the backyard/patio systems. There were several things that struck me about it that
I need to do more reading on - the system of dispersing the water over the gravel beds ,
why the 2 return tanks, heating the water ( she had none), backup power (need generator almost
immediately I reckon) , a system of dispersing excess water from rain and a few other bits and pieces.

cheers

[Murray]

Did you get some photos of the system, if so can you post them. Perhaps we can help you sort it out if we can follow your description a bit better.

[Hamish]

Bushboy - with regard to coping with excess water from rain - just put an overflow in the side of the tank at the optimum water level with a mesh over it to stop the fish flowing out with the water.

Murray has a good mesh filter here:

http://www.aquaponics.net.au/prod49.htm

Attach it to one of these through the side of the tank:

http://www.aquaponics.net.au/prod53.htm

Also allows you to put a hose onto it to direct overflow water to a holding bucket/tank/bladder or directly onto a dirt garden to water it:

This is also useful if you ever do a water change - just put water into the tank and the excess flows out to the garden or to storage to water the garden later - with the fish tank water still staying at the optimum water level.

[bushboy]

Hi -just an update on my system. SLOWLY progressing - I visited Murray last weekend for a look see at his system(s) and purchased some GB. I must say thanks for the tips, and being able to see how things work generally. There was much to take in and no doubt I will forget some important things and kill some fish as a result. Gail was most pleasant to us - thanks for her help as well. Anyway - I have water in my 500L fish tanks (x2) - I am leaving water in them for a few days to allow some leaching to occur as they were not specified as food grade. This water I am going to discard. Over the weekend I plan on plan on filling again and pumping into 1 GB to check out the autosiphon settings before filling with the gravel that I have sitting in my trailer. Yeh - can't wait to get it plumbed up and working.

I have found the aquaponics manual good value as well

[Hamish]

Are your tanks the round green bunnings $69 ones with lids?

I was in there the other day and they were down to $49!!!

I thought of getting one to hold water to declorinate for top ups and as an emergency tank - but when I asked if they would be ok for fish they said no - something about there being lead in the plastic - sounds nasty so I hope that is not what you have.

[bushboy]

Thanks (sort of!) for that Hamish - I was going to but have now abandoned
that idea and have ordered some tanks/other equipment from Murray

-hopefully I can collect it in the next few days and get started

Bugger the price going down - don't you just hate it when that happens
I feel ripped off!! I'm a bit pinged off that they aren't suitable for potable water too.
As always buyer beware

[Hamish]

Mate - take them back - they are pretty good with refunds.

I was a bit annoyed when I found out they were not suitable for potable water. They should be required by law to mark them as such.

They looked like really good tanks to start a system - or even just to hold water for top ups - or to use as a nursery tank for fingerlings.

I wonder how many people are using these to store drinking water without realising.

I am wondering if they would be ok to use with ornimental fish - as I am thinking of breeding some for sale in the future.

[bushboy]

Good point - I'll do that - they do have a decent attitude/policy to refunds
from previous experience

[Hamish]

Especially if you point out to them you wanted them to use for drinking water and that they should mark them with a warning that they are not suitable for this purpose.

[headinthecloud]

These bunnings tubs are cheap enough to think about coating them with waterproofing to stop any chemical leaching.

What were the ways they used to seal up old rain water tanks??? Tar paint or similar?

Anyone want to run an experiment on these?

[Hamish]

I thought of this also - could not think what to coat them with. It is just such a shame that they didnt make them out of non toxic plastic to start with. I wonder if it is worth tracking down the manufacturer of them - perhaps they could confirm the plastic will or wont leach.

[Murray]

It won't work. sorry. In the long run it just doesn't work out.
Long term any single pack paint will not stick to poly especially submerged. Hydroseal, a bituminous paint may stick but why risk running your system in marginal products ?
Isn't "Chemical free" one of the main drivers for us to produce our own food ? Cost of good equipment is a bit of a pain in the beginning, but in the end it really pays, both in length of service and quality of service.

I guess it does not matter all that much for the veggie side, but the fish will be swimming, drinking, eating, bathing, absorbing any little nasties that may be leaching for a whole year before they get to be eaten. A whole year , just to make sure the nasties are well absorbed.....now that is marinating in a very thorough way.

Bon appetite !!!

[Hamish]

Hahahah - yes you are right Murray - and as one who has invested in fiberglass tanks I agree they are the way to go. It would be good if there was an option for those people who dont have the dosh to spend though.

[Murray]

There are other options. Good quality poly rainwater tanks are fine. Also see the tank that Jonty made from timber , carpet and a pond liner.

[bushboy]

The tanks are loaded on the trailer ready to return to Bunnings tonight

I contemplated buying some pool/pond liner from Aquatic Oasis - I have bought from
there before for a frog pond - but thinking about cutting it to shape
caused me to abandon that idea fairly quickly. As Murray said I doubt any paint type
stuff would really be a goer - any plastic I have painted in the past really doesn't
withstand any wear and tear ( actually car bumpers and other parts are plastic
-they seem to do ok though when painted)

Any way - I have now ordered more stuff from Murray so Fibreglass is the material for my system as well

Incidentally - Hamish - I believe you are on the Gold Coast - I will be down on Sunday
(foolishly entered the 10km run with my daughter) -
any chance of a bo peak at your setup -especially the biopod??

[headinthecloud]

Had to visit the local Bunnings today so thought I'd check out the tanks up close. Definitely not for potable water, possibly due to the recycled plastic used in the manufacture.

I've attached some pics I took, the warning sticker, the manufacturer and the recyling mark. I can't decifer the reycling codes, can anyone help out here?

[Hamish]

Incidentally - Hamish - I believe you are on the Gold Coast - I will be down on Sunday
(foolishly entered the 10km run with my daughter) -
any chance of a bo peak at your setup -especially the biopod??
No problem - drop in for a coffee if you like. I will send you a PM with my mobile number. Give me a call before you come. Also drop me an email or PM to let me know roughly what time you will be here. I am at Hope Island - northern end of the Gold Coast near Sanctuary Cove.