Hamish's System

[GaryD]

More importantly, a couple of days will ensure that ammonia production has peaked in advance of you adding the fish to your system.

Gary

[nick]

pretty sure that ausyfish last time i checked were selling 8cm jade perch for $1.55 each plus shipping.

Also when you get the jades it might be an idea to slt them heavily and have the temp up high to try and control any possible ich that can be associated with the stress of movement and catching.

Just an idea but i think others have found it handy to get this under control, not sure of the concentrations but someone will know what to do.

Nick

[fishfood]

For a rough guide most if us use 3 kg per 1000 litres of water =3 ppt i run around 2 ppt all the time

[Murray]

Good idea to quarantine your new fish. Use one of those 250 ltr grow beds Hamish ar something like that. Salt it up as per FF says 3 kg per 1000 ltr and leave them in there for about 14 days. With aeration and food etc as you normally would. Keep checking the water for ammonia etc. You may need to do a 1/3 water change to keep ammonia down. If so re add the appropriate amount of salt.
When it is all over drop them into your fresh water tank. It is the shock of the sudden change from fresh to salt and back to fresh again that knocks out the ICH parasite.....if it is there. If it is not there it won't matter anyway. If they have anything else like a bit of fin rot or whatever the salt will do them the world of good.
Don't worry about the fish and salt water, they love it.....
PS, swimming pool salt is usually good, read the label to make sure that it is just plain salt. It usually is and is very low cost. You can get a 10kg bag for about 12 dollars. Table salt has almost always got iodine and anti caking agent in with it....no good for the fish.

[Hamish]

Considering I only have 7 gold fish in the tank - what would be the point of isolating the new fish?

[Murray]

If they do come with some problems you cannot treat them in your normal system. The salt will kill your plants and bacteria.
But if you want to take a punt, then put them into your main tank and see what happens, they may well be just fine.

[Hamish]

Ok - so in my case its more about protecting the plants from the salt if I have to dose the tank with salt. Got it. Thanks for the advice.

[Hamish]

Ammonia on the rise. No more Urea after tonight.

pH 7.4
Ammonia 1.00
Nitrite 0.5
Nitrate 7.0

[fishfood]

If they do come with some problems you cannot treat them in your normal system. The salt will kill your plants and bacteria.
But if you want to take a punt, then put them into your main tank and see what happens, they may well be just fine.
Gonner beg to differ on that one i normaly run to 3 ppt all the time and have been to 6 ppt the only thing that sufferd was strawberrys [see the latest pictures in my thread on growth ]

[Murray]

That's interesting FF
The only time I ran salt in my system it devastated my tomatoes cucumbers etc. Can't remember how strong the mixture was, but must have been more that 3ppm
I have always assumed that salt at all was not good for the plants ???

I must set up a small system and try it...see how it goes.

[fishfood]

Hi Murray the whey i read it is hydro is mainley a mixture of salts and other stuff in the earlier days joel ran a story on a commercial hydro setup in perth [ about 2 acres his channels where cliplokdecking and his tanks where also made from it ] he used glodfish in his tanks to stop mizzies also i have seen a setup here in vic with monster floating raft beds running hydro and with silvers in his tanks to stop mozzies
at the moment i cant find pictures if interested i will post when i find them

[Murray]

As I understand it the salts in Hydro systems can get out of wack and cause all sorts of problems, so I guess it must be a matter of getting everything just right. Like it is with Aquaponics, keeping everything in balance.

[Hamish]

Ok people - really weird water test result. Well the Nitrite test is weird anyway.

Ammonia 2.0 (so I have not added any more Urea tonight)

Nitrite - cant work out the colour - it looks grey - perhaps it is somewhere inbetween blue and purple - so perhaps 0.10 ??? Anyone seen this colour before?

Nitrate 5.0

pH - off the top of the chart - will do a low range pH test and see what it looks like. My guess is 7.2 Lets see if I am correct.

[Hamish]

Ok - this is an even weirder test result.

The low range pH test says the water has a pH of 6.0

So how can water pH go from around 7.4 - 7.8 a few days ago and now be showing 6.0 ???

I am confused - why the swings? There has been no rain since. Perhaps it is the last couple of doses of Urea?

Could it be due to the upward swing of Ammonia caused by the adding of urea? I didnt notice this last time I went through a urea dosing cycle - see my journal for details.

The Nitrite has developed more of a blue colour so im pretty sure that it is showing 0 for Nitrite - or close to it anyway.

Just really confused by the pH result now.

Any help in understanding the results would be apreciated.

[Hamish]

Here is the new Journal update as of tonight

http://www.mediafire.com/?jjf0gzjyy1x

[Hamish]

I picked up the 2 grow bed stands on Friday so I will be getting everything set up this weekend.

The stands look great – but ****** expensive. I will post some pics once it is set up later today.

I was searching around eBay and found these – which is what I would use if I was to do this again.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/NEW-EXTRA-HEAVY-DUTY-SHELVING-2000kg-load-Capacity_W0QQitemZ160247586233QQihZ006QQcategoryZ105846QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZV iewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/NEW-EXTRA-HEAVY-DUTY-SHELVING-2000kg-load-Capacity_W0QQitemZ160247586233QQihZ006QQcategoryZ105846QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZV iewItem)

Each one of these shelves could be cut in 2 to hold 2 growbeds - each with 1 grow bed underneath.

Thought others might find this info useful.

[Hamish]

Hi Murray - what do you use to join PVC pipe fittings? Looks like you might be using epoxy from a couple of your bits I have looked at.

[Hamish]

Currently my flood and drain system is operating 24 hours a day - mainly to help everything cycle quickly so I can get my fish :)

Now that it is cycled I am reducing the temperature of the tank from 27oC to 22oC (and possibly lower) in an attempt to cut system running costs.

If you look at my Journal you can see it is costing about $1 a day to run at 27oC.

So my question is - if I run the air pump and heater 24 hours a day to keep temps airated and warm for the Jade Perch - and put the water pump on a timer so it only runs during the day (say 7am to 9pm) are there any down sides?

One down side I see immediatly is that if the timer cuts off with a full growbed just before the autosiphon kicks in then the growbed will remain flooded overnight - perhaps not good for the plants?

One thought I had was to drill a small hole through the bottom of the standpipe - perhaps 8mm diameter - so that there is a constant drain of a trickle of water out of the growbed - this way the grow bed would self train over a couple of hours once the timer shuts off. THis may interfere with the autosiphon performance?

The other idea was to run the pump for 30 min (at say 2am) to give the plant roots a chance to beath during the night. 30 min running would give them about 2 flood and drain cycles given my current seup.

Any other thoughts and ideas?

[Murray]

Hamish, The idea you have to put a drain in the bottom of the tank is good, but it is better if you fit a tap so that you can regulate the flow and even turn it off if you need to.
Remind me when you come to get the 2 grow beds later in the week and I will give you an extra tank fitting.
With continuous flow and auto siphons it will be possible that your timer will shut the pump down at just the wrong time and you will need the slow drain idea.
You can still regulate the flow into the grow bed to keep the auto siphon working ok.

Just use PVC solvent cement, avbl in blue or clear for ordinary usage.

Down side to turning pump off at night is the ammonia load will go up while the pump is off, so change to feeding the fish in the morning to reduce ammonia load during the night.
Keep a close eye on ammonia levels. It is very interesting how quickly it can change, especially when you are not pumping through your bio-filters (grow beds).

[Hamish]

Well the water test results are still strange on the pH front - I really wonder if I should do a water change to get pH to a proper level. Is this where I need to use shell grit to buffer?

Ammonia 1.0
Nitrite 0.25
Nitrate 0
ph 6.0

[Murray]

I have noticed that when using clay pebbles as a grow medium the pH drifts down a little more than when using ordinary gravel.
If you get some oyster shells or sea shells of some sort, contain them in a stocking of some sort and bury them down in one of your grow beds, this will provide a very safe and effective pH buffer.
Keep your chook egg shells, microwave them to kill any bacteria that might be on them. Do the same with them, old stocking and bury them in one of your grow beds.
The pH will gradually be buffered up a little. This method is a wonderful self regulating way to do it, because when the pH gets up to neutral the system stops breaking down the egg shells,sea shells and they just sit there waiting until they are needed again.
"It won't happen over night, but it will happen"
Who said that ?

[Hamish]

I tested the water at 8am this morning and the pH is still low - about 6.

So I picked up some coarse shell grit and a mesh bag from the pet shop today - all up $8

Washed the shell grit in the bag under the tap and have burried it under the gravel next to the water inlet of the grow bed - so all the water is flowing through the shell grit.

Lets see how long it takes to get the pH back up.

[fishfood]

I tested the water at 8am this morning and the pH is still low - about 6.

So I picked up some coarse shell grit and a mesh bag from the pet shop today - all up $8

Washed the shell grit in the bag under the tap and have burried it under the gravel next to the water inlet of the grow bed - so all the water is flowing through the shell grit.

Lets see how long it takes to get the pH back up.
Hamish i have found when your system gets fully established i will probley buffer down to 6 anyhow [most do ] they are quite comefortable at that [look at my growth ]

[Hamish]

Thanks FF,

I just had a look here http://www2.dpi.qld.gov.au/fishweb/14076.html and it seems that Jade Perch will tolerate pH of 6 to 9 (wow!) but ideally between 6.5 and 8.5

So it looks like I am worrying about nothing.

I dont think the shell grit will do any harm though - unless it changes carbonate hardness? Dont seem to hear much talk of carbonate hardness in AP.

Cheers,
Hamish

[Hamish]

Happy days - the water seems to be raising in pH a little with the help of the shell grit. Nice slow change so wont shock the fish. Wish I had added the bag of shell grit from the start - easy way to buffer. From what I understand the shells will only disolve if the water turns acidic (lower pH) and once the water returns to the mid 7's then it stops disolving. So it balances the pH automatically and its cheap and easy to get.

Tonights water test shows:

Ammonia 0 (yay!)
Nitrite 0.50 (pretty low! Will probably be back to 0 tomorrow!)
Nitrate 5.0 - plenty there for the pants!
pH 6.6 (up from 6 last night - so on the improve!)

Pick fish up in the morning!