Hamish's System

[Hamish]

Hi all - well here are my latest water test result as of last night.

Ammonia 0.10
Nitrite 1.5
Nitrate 10
pH 7.4

Seems the rain has lowered the pH and Nitrate a bit. I am ok with the pH coming down as it was a bit high. Shame about the lost Nitrate as I just put all those seedlings in that could have used it up :( More fish and food needed :)

Ammonia is almost back to zero - probably because no Urea has been added and the 7 goldfish probably dont produce much waste. Just wait until the Jade Perch get in there :)

So my question is - when do you know you are finished cycling? My guess is that it is when the Nitrite has dropped to zero? Mine is still pretty high so figure I have a way to go. I am surprised it is taking so long given the temp I have the water at (27oC) and that I started the system with 50L of used fish water.

I guess it is as always just patience and time :)

[Hamish]

Ok - today I found my first pests on the new lettuce and basil.

The basil had a brown stick insect looking creature on it - at first I thought it was a stick insect which I beleive are predatory so I left it there, but I came back an hour later and he had eaten a big hole in the basil leaf. Or Iatleast I assume it was him. I tried to pick him off and it hopped away like a grass hopper Eventually got him and fed him to the goldies! Never seen a stick insect hop so assume it is some sort of grass hopper? Any idea what this thing is? There are a lot of them around at the moment.

The other insect was a small greenish/white fly - my guess is they were aphids - do they fly? They were hanging around the lettuce.

Murray - do you think its time for me to mix up a batch of your potion?

[Murray]

The insects are always there, little mongrels.....
That potion works ok. Be careful not to get any spray fallout onto the water surface, might not be good for the fish.
I cover , close the door before spraying these days. I have had some accidents spraying too close to the fish.

Earlier somewhere I saw you post that the Kiddie Cover keeps the heat in....you are right, works very well. I have some sheets of that black builders plastic cut to size that I cover the balcony kits with these cold nights. Spread it over the Kiddie cover door for a better seal. Most heat is lost from the surface of the water.

Have you got those Jades yet ?

[Hamish]

No Jades yet - they are suppose to be harvesting the last pond of Jades this week and they are going to call me when they do.

I dare say the weather has hampered them so far this week. Lets hope I can get them soon :)

In the interim the system is still cycling with the help of the heater set at 27oC :)

I visited the welder today and he was just finishing off the 2 grow bed stands. They look good. Should be sand blasted, primed and powder coated this week ready to pickup on Friday or Saturday.

Fingers crossed :)

[Hamish]

Water test:

Ammonia 0.10
Nitrite 1.0
Nitrate 5.0
pH 7.4

So not much change again - would really like to get the Nitrite down to zero if I can before I get my Jade Perch.

Patience.

[Hamish]

Here is my updated Journal.

http://www.mediafire.com/?vnmncsgfzft

[Murray]

If you are still adding urea or ammonia of any sort and you do have the good bacteria present, then you will not see zero readings of nitrite and nitrate.
If you were to have prolonged zero readings your good bacteria would be starving to death.
In theory you could get them all to zero by not feeding any ammonia to the system, but you then risk killing off the bacteria colony you have worked so hard to establish.
It is true that all the nitrite should all be consumed in producing nitrate, and therefore you should get a zero reading on nitrite, but I have found by practical observation that there is always a very small trace of nitrite present.
Some may say that my systems have therefore never completely cycled. Find that hard to believe

[Hamish]

Here are some pics of the seedlings I planted a couple of days ago - will be interesting to see how they go. 11 Cos Lettuce, 2 Basil, 3 Cucumber, 2 Beans, 4 Tiny tomato at the back. What is the best variety of lettuce people have found for AP?

[Hamish]

If you are still adding urea or ammonia of any sort and you do have the good bacteria present, then you will not see zero readings of nitrite and nitrate.
If you were to have prolonged zero readings your good bacteria would be starving to death.
In theory you could get them all to zero by not feeding any ammonia to the system, but you then risk killing off the bacteria colony you have worked so hard to establish.
It is true that all the nitrite should all be consumed in producing nitrate, and therefore you should get a zero reading on nitrite, but I have found by practical observation that there is always a very small trace of nitrite present.
Some may say that my systems have therefore never completely cycled. Find that hard to believe
Thanks Murray - thought that might be the case. I figured a bit more UREA would not hurt untill the Jade Perch turn up. Atleast the system will be use to coping with high load I guess. Murray - what do you consider 'A small trace of Nitrite' to be? Im trying to get a handle on normal operating levels.

[Murray]

Just a very small colour change, that is what I get almost every time.
Cos lettuce work best for me.

[Martin A1]

Hamish get the fish online mate.
My issue is that I have been too conservative with the number of fish and volume of feed (in the warmer months). I have adversely minimised my risks (I am normally a little risk averse) and as a result run my systems in low gear for too long.
At a dollar or so a throw plus the ethical issues with killing fish I have been too conservative.
Time to throw caution to the wind and crank up the fish numbers!

[Murray]

Hamish, you will need to get a good trellis for the climbing beans. They could wind up on the first floor of your villa, or over the wall onto your neighbours upstairs balcony. :)
They grow really well in an aquaponics system. You will enjoy loads of beans of those two vines.

[Hamish]

Yes - I swear the beans grew 2 inches today - I kid you not! They are galloping away.

How am I best to train them - can they be trained sideways and down?

Is that plastic mesh stuff from Bunnings ok to use?

[Murray]

Just provide a stick or stake. They will climb a long way, like 2 mtrs and more. They don't ever want to go down, but will go sideways.

A slightly upward inclined string going towards your back fence would be my best idea for you mate. You will be amazed how many beans will come off those two vines.

[Hamish]

Great - I love beans!

The Jades have been harvested today and have gone into a holding tank. I wanted to pick them up today but the farm suggested I leave it a few days for them to settle down - rather than move and shock them twice in one day - good advice.

Unfortunatly they are very small - 20mm - 30mm long - however I am sure they will grow well once they get in the tank with a little heat.

So I will pick them up on Monday - happy days!

[Hamish]

Murray - do you/can you prune the bean vine - or best to let it go?

[Murray]

I guess you could prune, but just let it go. Get as many beans as poss.
I always find it a matter of great humor how hatcheries describe fingerlings. They will say, "They are really big" and when you get them they are little runts lucky to be 20mm long. Doesn't matter they will grow anyway.
Them Jades grow really well.
Are you getting them from Beenleigh ?

[Hamish]

Yep - Beenleigh. This is his last pond for the year - said they have been very slow growing. Hope it doesnt mean they are bad blood line.

I am waiting for Ausy Fish to get back to me with what size their fingerlings are - or if they have any left. I just cant bring myself to freight them when there is a hatchery just 30 min drive from me. Less stress on the fish?

[Hamish]

Here are the latest water results and journal http://www.mediafire.com/?4wpyovmouzd

If you look at the graph in the journal it is interesting to see the Nitrite never really spiked - but the Nitrate did spike. Small ammonia hump. Weird.

Ammonia 0.1
Nitrite 1.0
Nitrate 7.0
pH 7.4

[GaryD]

Hi Hamish,


Less stress on the fish?
I wouldn't worry about stress on the fish, Ausyfish are very experienced when it comes to transporting fish.

Your results suggest that you have bacterial activity at all levels. I'd keep adding the urea (in small regular increments) to keep things building. It's important at this stage not to create too much of an ammonia spike since it will retard the development of nitrates by the nitrobacter bacteria.

Gary

[Hamish]

Hi Hamish,


I wouldn't worry about stress on the fish, Ausyfish are very experienced when it comes to transporting fish.

Your results suggest that you have bacterial activity at all levels. I'd keep adding the urea (in small regular increments) to keep things building. It's important at this stage not to create too much of an ammonia spike since it will retard the development of nitrates by the nitrobacter bacteria.

Gary
So increase the quantity of Urea every night? So last night was 1tsp, tonight 1.5tsp, tomorrow night 2tsp etc?

[GaryD]

Hamish,


So increase the quantity of Urea every night? So last night was 1tsp, tonight 1.5tsp, tomorrow night 2tsp etc?

No.....keep it steady at 1 tsp per day....and continue to do your tests on a daily basis. You've already got bacterial activity across the nitrogen spectrum - we just want it to build slowly. Keeping your tanks at around 27 degrees (as you indicated earlier) and having a pH of around 7.4 will ensure that things happen quickly.

When are your fish due and how many have you ordered?

Gary

[Hamish]

Got 100 jade perch about 2cm long which I am picking up monday. I know that is a lot of perch but they are tiny. I am sure I will end up expanding the system before they get too big. I have a 1250L tank (1150 usable?) so they should be happy for a few months before I need to plan expansion. Worst case I need to give a few away or sell them.

[GaryD]

Hamish,

Keep the urea going for the next couple of days and then let the system settle for a couple of days until the fish arrive.

The worst that can happen is that you may have to do some partial water changes but that seems unlikely from where I sit.

Gary

[Hamish]

Thanks Gary - very much apreciated - I will dose with Urea again tonight and then let it rest - it seems the urea takes a couple of days to convert to ammonia then a couple of days to get to Nitrate. Would that be a fair observation?