No Dig Garden

[Murray]

Here are some shots of my no-dig-garden. It's coming along nicely.
Photo 1 has 3 x tomato bushes and 6 or 8 lettuce, a lone sweet potato which will eventually take over the whole bed.
Photo2 has cauliflower and cabbage and beetroot
Photo3 has a row on the left of broad beans and on the right a row of Brussels sprouts.

[Jonty]

Murray,

Have to admit the no dig garden is another wonderful way to grow produce. Years ago after buying Ester Deans book, I tried it. I put in 3 lebanese cucumbers. Picked them by the bucket load. My wife pickled them, we gave them away, feed them to the chooks.

The same thing happened with 4 roma tomatoes. I dried them in a dehydrator, then into olive oil. Still eating them.

Regards
Jonty

[Murray]

I am enjoying watching the no-dig garden come along. It's main purpose is to grow below-ground veggies and above-ground stuff that is too big for my aquaponics system such as zucchini.
Zucchini bushes get so big in aquaponics, one bush will take up half a grow bed.
But re the no-dig garden, I have planted in there a number of excess seedlings I have had, such as the cabbage and tomato and lettuce. Can't bring myself to throw away good seedlings.
The broad beans and brussel sprouts are to please my dear wife.

[GaryD]

Hi Murray,

Prior to the implementation of the water restrictions, we operated four raised bed sheet mulch gardens (a variation on the 'no dig' theme) and they still rank as the most productive gardens I have ever had.....bar none.

GaryD

[fishfood]

Hi heres my dirt garden and it fits in niceley

[Murray]

FF, do you water your dirt garden with fish water ?

[fishfood]

Hi murray yes most of the time then top up the fish tanks

[Murray]

FF, I reckon that is the way to go with a no-dig or dirt garden... smart use of water.

[craigb]

Murray I don't have a no dig garden presently but my normal garden is up and running and I noticed the peas are setting a few pods.

I have been thinking that a garden is needed to grow legumes as well. I notice that many people are growing peas and beans in the grow beds and I wonder if they could be contributing towards a nitrogen problem in the water as they produce nitrogen?

One thing for sure, the raised grow beds are a must when dogs are around. I had to fence my garden as a dog kept burying his bone in them.

[Murray]

Hi Craig,
I can't imagine why the legumes would be a problem, but I cannot be sure of that. There might be some hidden factors. I have grown climbing beans all this summer and do not detect any problems, except being able to eat all the beans.
I have planted peas in my no-dig garden mainly because I do not have any room for them in my 4 x grow bed system.
It should be an 8 bed system :D

[GaryD]

Hi CraigB,

Nitrogen is only an issue in an Aquaponics system when it is in the form of ammonia or nitrite.

Gary

[craigb]

Murray the only drawback I could see is that legumes produce their own nitrogen and then some for the other vegies planted around them and those plants most likely would not be utilizing or converting enough of the nitrate from the fish tank.

Gary, thanks for the info re nitrate and ammonia. Do you actually have to have plants growing in the beds for the cleansing and conversion of the pond water, or will the gravel beds on their own filter the water?

[Murray]

I cannot see it being an issue. Aquaponics systems are really not that delicate, I mean, they are very robust once established, the beds would not be over taken by the output of the legumes.

[GaryD]

Hi Craig,


Gary, thanks for the info re nitrate and ammonia. Do you actually have to have plants growing in the beds for the cleansing and conversion of the pond water, or will the gravel beds on their own filter the water?It's the bacteria that lives in the microfilm on the media that facilitates the conversion of ammonia to nitrite to nitrate. That conversion will occur regardless of whether you have plants in the grow bed or not.

While we use plants in an AP system to remove the nitrates, we can use another kind of bio-filter (denitrification filter) to convert the nitrates to nitrous oxide (laughing gas) and then to Nitrogen gas.

The little system that Murray and I designed will operate inside or outside - the only difference being that outside it would grow plants where inside it generally would not. Having said that, you could even grow plants inside if you used the appropriate metal halide or high pressure sodium lights.

GaryD

[Hamish]

Im thinking of making a simple raised bed wooden frame that I can sit on the dirt garden. The soil in my rented townhouse is terrible - so raised bed is the way to go. I want to use timber that will last and wont rot or get eaten by termites. Am I wrong in assuming that CCA treated pine should be avoided for gardens due to the potential contamination of the vegetables? If this is the case can someone suggest a good timber to use that wont cost the earth and will last a long time?

[Jonathan Dyer]

There is some loose evidence that treated pine could have some adverse affects on plants, a common discussion in viticultural circles will treated pine leak arsenic into the soil and into the end wine product? If that is one day going to kill me, so be it, but I think I have a higher chance of drowning in the bathtub or meeting my death on a banana peel.

If still concerned old railway sleepers are the most common thing used for raised beds they are cheap too it may well be worth checking out.

[djs-sa]

I should know but in the vineyards they use the blackish posts not sure what they are but they arnt meant to me bad :rolleyes:

[Jonathan Dyer]

I designed my vineyard to use recycled plastic posts of memory there 100mmx100mm just to avoid any unlikely contamination from arsenic mixed with galv steel as my plans for a fully organic vineyard from planting. But alas shires, councilors, politics all operate irrespective of our constitution.

[fishfood]

Hamish my dirt garden is made from new 8 in =4in red gum sleepers [cheaper than old ones 2.4 m $16.00] and if you are worried about termites once a year just put a little distilate around the bottom [it wont effect the crops]

[bushboy]

Hi Hamish - don't use CCA pine - I have moderately elevated levels of arsenic in my system after using some around my yard over the past 12 months. I make sure I wear gloves handling it now. Hopefully it slowly is excreted now that I am avoiding it.

I used old house stumps for my vege patch(es) -in your situation not helpful however. I guess old hardwood from a demo yard - bearers or joists would be the go for you - I would paint with diggers brand anti-termite stuff. This is available from B - it seems to be tar based . This is what you use now instead of creosote ( which was carcinogenic!). I would only paint the underneath anyway. The best timber would be cypress pine, I built my house with this years ago and have left a 8"x4" piece on the ground for 20 years and it has not been touched by termites whereas they rapidly reduce other hardwood or pine to dust within a few years when left in contact with the ground. They really seem to hate cypress!

Tom

[echidna]

Or you can avoid timber altogether and use besser bricks or common bricks or galvanised iron. At both my grandparents places, raised garden beds were build with a ash based concrete and a cement stucco applied over it - not good for rental accommodation, but it was cheap and longlasting. A low retaining wall at my mother's place was built in this method and it's still going strong over 60 years later.

I've used besser bricks for my current garden as I think I'll be developing the spot later on. For potatoes I used to use tyres, but after concern about chemical leaching I've switch to brick circles. Easy to build up as the plants grow and easy to pull apart for harvesting.

[Hamish]

Thanks Tom - good advice. I also read that linseed oil can help protect wood from rot - not sure about termites though.

[Hamish]

Thanks Echidna. Garry - what do you use for your square foot gardens?

[GaryD]

Hi,

I used untreated wood and form ply.....lined with heavy duty greenhouse plastic to make my square foot bed.

We also have four circular concrete beds. These are sections of pit pipe...about 600mm high and 1500mm in diameter.

I've attached photos of both the square foot beds and the raised sheet mulch beds.

Gary

[Jim Bedford]

Hi Hamish,
The tanins and phenols in cypress make it termite proof. For what its worth, I think new sleepers are preferable to old ones. The old ones have grit and even coal dust in them, which can stuff your tools.
Gary's idea of concrete tubs is a good one. We have a mob called Pipeworks down here who sell seconds. Maybe when you get your block and have room.
Thanks for your thread, mate.
Jim B