We've made the tank

[anniefish]

Hi all,
Finished the tank yesterday and it's been raining since - maybe it's a sign:rolleyes: We'll start on the beds when it stops raining. Has anyone used polypipe ? We are thinking of drilling holes in the top and filling with ?? any suggestions, will gravel be OK? Maybe it needs to be a bit finer. Any suggestions most welcome. Cheers Ann & Neil.

[Murray]

That's great anniefish,
What did you make the tank out of ?
I don't really understand what you are asking about the poly pipe. Can you expand on that a bit ?
And do you have any photos ?

[anniefish]

Hi Murray,
The tank is made of concrete, about the size of a cattle water trough, round diameter approx 6foot. (Sorry don't understand metric measure) height 3 foot. It is now full of water approx 1000lt, will drain it tomorrow, if we don't have a flood overnight.:D Will test water to see how it is after the next fill and drain. Tonight the water is clear as a bell.
With the poly pipe, (sorry about that couldn't understand myself when I re-read that bit). We want to lay them down, not standing upright, put holes every 8 inches, (20cm, looked on the tape measure!), or so, in a line on the top, fill with gravel, probably not to the top, then put the plants in the holes. Just wasn't sure if gravel would do the job. Intend to flood and drain the poly like a grow bed. Obviously we would have ends on the pipes with hoses through for the water. Intending to have the pipes one above the other on a rack to be made by my great husband. Hopefully you will be able to see the diagram following.
C:/my pictures/poly pipe grow beds if not blame my daughter.
Thank you for asking, have fun mowing, we'll have to get the mower fixed now:(, would sent photos but I ran over the camera when my cow was in the dam - long story. Bye for now, Anniefish.

[Macca]

Do you really mean poly pipe Annie - or do your mean PVC pipe (as in storwater and stuff). Poly pipe big enough to do what you are talking about would be really expensive I would think.

[GaryD]

Hi Ann,

The tank sounds fine.

The PVC pipe growing system usually works by having 75mm-80mm holes bored at intervals.....into which you insert net pots (available from hydroponic shops).

The net pots are filled with gravel or expanded clay aggregate and this supports the plant.

The pipe is set up with end caps so that it remains half full of water. This is a variation on the deep water culture (DWC) concept.

You maintain a slow flow through the pipe and having an air line in the pipe (to maintain good aeration) is a good idea, too.

This system is capable of excellent plant growth.

The only problem with your idea, depending on the number of fish that you are planning to keep, is that you won't have enough nitrification happening.

Consider including a trickling bio-filter into the system......to encourage beneficial bacteria to build up in sufficient numbers so that they begin to convert the ammonia produced by the fish into nitrites and then into nitrates. This is the nitrogen cycle.

GaryD

[anniefish]

Hi Macca, Yes you're right it's PVC pipe. Anniefish

[Jimbo]

Hi Ann,
A chap called Doug ( contributor on the Backyards Aqaponics forum) made a big concrete tank but then had massive pH problems as the concrete is really alkaline and takes a fair while to settle down. He lost a fair few of his fish for one reason or another. I would be very wary of putting fish in until the pH was in the 7 to 7.5 range. The other option would be to paint the inside with a non toxic paint.

[GaryD]

Hi Ann,

I should have enquired about whether your tank was new or not. Jimbo's observation is very relevant if the concrete is new.......less so if the concrete is well aged.

A pH test is certainly the way to go.

Gary

[Murray]

Jimbo, is correct.
Concrete tanks are great once they have aged a bit. I was at a school recently giving them some help with installing an system. They had a square concrete tank made from concrete block and cement plastered. It is 4 mtr square and 1 mtr deep. Big enough for a swimming pool !!! Great tank, I have pondering the building of one ever since. Imagine all the fish I could have !
Muzza

[anniefish]

Hi all,
Thank you for the advice, the tank is new and is very alkaline 7.4. Will change the water, draining it onto trees. Will definately not introduce fish into the system until it settles. Intend to run the grow beds for a while and settling the system, before adding fish. We can get feeder silver perch at the local pet shop for 40 cents each. Are they OK to start with?
Cheers, Ann.

[GaryD]

Hi Ann,

Any fish that you get for 40 cents each are cheap.

You should be aware, however, that frequenting aquarium shops (and other fish places) is the most likely way to contract a fish disease like ICH (White Spot Disease). I'd be more inclined to get my fish from a trusted hatchery.

Have you considered nitrogen dosing (rather than using live fish) to cycle your new system? This method is more decisive and reliable than live fish cycling and doesn't put fish at risk.

Get your pH right......about 7 - 7.5 is good for establishing nitrification. At pH 7.4 your pH is spot on for cycling purposes.
Use pure ammonia (do not use household products), fish food or even a half dozen prawns to provide the ammonia. Undertake daily water tests.
When your ammonia and nitrite readings both reach 5.....and then settle back to ZERO....your system has cycled.How quickly cycling occurs will depend on a range of factors including

availability of sufficient ammonia to encourage the colonisation of Nitrosomonas bacteria (and subsequently Nitrobacter bacteria).
water temperature
pHIf you are lucky (and do it properly) cycling could happed in as little as three or four weeks. If it becomes extended it could take months to settle properly. Nitrogen dosing allows you to achieve useful ammonia levels without risk.

I've attached a photo of the Freshwater Test Kit that I (and many other Aquaponicists) use to ensure that our water quality parameters are correct. They're available at most Aquarium shops.....or from Internet-based aquarium suppliers......for $40 to $50 depending on where you get them. They contain the four most essential tests.......pH, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates.

Gary

[damien little]

Hi Ann,

Any fish that you get for 40 cents each are cheap.

You should be aware, however, that frequenting aquarium shops (and other fish places) is the most likely way to contract a fish disease like ICH (White Spot Disease). I'd be more inclined to get my fish from a trusted hatchery.

Have you considered nitrogen dosing (rather than using live fish) to cycle your new system? This method is more decisive and reliable than live fish cycling and doesn't put fish at risk.

Get your pH right......about 7 - 7.5 is good for establishing nitrification. At pH 7.4 your pH is spot on for cycling purposes.
Use pure ammonia (do not use household products), fish food or even a half dozen prawns to provide the ammonia. Undertake daily water tests.
When your ammonia and nitrite readings both reach 5.....and then settle back to ZERO....your system has cycled.How quickly cycling occurs will depend on a range of factors including

availability of sufficient ammonia to encourage the colonisation of Nitrosomonas bacteria (and subsequently Nitrobacter bacteria).
water temperature
pHIf you are lucky (and do it properly) cycling could happed in as little as three or four weeks. If it becomes extended it could take months to settle properly. Nitrogen dosing allows you to achieve useful ammonia levels without risk.

I've attached a photo of the Freshwater Test Kit that I (and many other Aquaponicists) use to ensure that our water quality parameters are correct. They're available at most Aquarium shops.....or from Internet-based aquarium suppliers......for $40 to $50 depending on where you get them. They contain the four most essential tests.......pH, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates.

Gary

I am interested in this tyoe of kick start. How much ammonia per thousand litres would you add? What happens if the levels don't hit 5, does that mean you won't get cycled?

[GaryD]

Hi Damien,



I am interested in this tyoe of kick start. How much ammonia per thousand litres would you add? What happens if the levels don't hit 5, does that mean you won't get cycled?


Try a half dozen big prawns (cooked or uncooked) per 1000 litres for a start. You can always add more if you need to.

Cycling can occur with less than 5....it's just a guide.

The important thing is that what we're talking about here is a systematic approach to cycling. Add more ammonia until you get a good kick and let it go from there. With nitrogen dosing, you can't do any harm.

The alternative is to use live fish.....and mess around with fluctuating test readings and frequent water replacements.

Gary

[anniefish]

Hi Gary,
Thanks for the info. I've heard along the line that you can add aquasol, or a fish fertilizer to the water. Would this help? You say to add prawns to the water, how long do you leave them in?
See ya, Ann.

[GaryD]

Hi Ann,

Don't use Aquasol. I know someone who successfully killed a heap of fish with it.

You can use SeaSol for nutrient adjustment purposes but, for cycling, I'd stick with the prawns.

They can be removed once you've achieved the ammonia levels that I spoke of earlier. They're only needed for as long as it takes to encourage colonisation of the beneficial bacteria.

Gary

[damien little]

on the prawns, would that not be risking adding some nasties to your system? aka getting feeder fish from a dodgy aquarium shop? if you were going to cycle up without fish, are prawns really the way you would do it given other options??

[sillyoldfart]

Yeah, it's not like I know better. But I do know what raw prawns do and smell like when they go off.

And I've had the unfortunate experience of food poisioning from bad prawns.

Wouldn't you run the risk of salmonella in your water?

[GaryD]

You can also use pure ammonia or fish food.

I suggested prawns because they are easy to get hold of.

Nitrogen dosing (or fishless cycling) has been used by aquarium enthusiasts for years so I imagine that, if there were major issues associated with the use of prawns, they would have surfaced by now.

Having said that, I'm not a scientist.

[Macca]

My partner would kill me if I used raw prawns to cycle. He is worse than most women LOL

[Macca]

Where would you get pure ammonia from Gary?

[njh]

Where would you get pure ammonia from Gary?

You can buy cloudy ammonia from the shops - I think it would be perfectly adequate to start a system without fish off with. Alternatively, you can just wee in the pool :)

[Macca]

My partner would kill me if I did that too - he is quite anal. Would cloudy ammonia have nasties in it that could harm the system. What is the 'cludy' component I wonder.

[damien little]

NJH,
I am not sure, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it the pure ammonia you want, doesn't cloudy ammonia have other added extras including detergents, which would obviously kill your fish as soon as you put them in:confused:

Damo

[GaryD]

I got this quote from http://chemistry.co.nz/stain_frame.htm?/_framed/stain_laundry.html&rbottom



When ammonia was first made from coal tar, the solutions were very murky. Later, the "Haber" process for fixing the nitrogen of the air gave a very pure product, but by this time people were used to "cloudy ammonia". For this reason soap is added to keep pure, clear ammonia - "cloudy".


The bottom line is that if it has soap in it, I certainly wouldn't use for cycling an aquaponics system.

I imagine you should be able to get pure ammonia from a chemist.....I haven't tried to buy it.

You might be able to pee in the tank but you might need the footall team to help you get the amount that you need. Given a choice between a few prawns (or some fish food) and piddling in the tank, I'd opt for the prawns or fish food. Remember, that if ammonia shows up in your tank after you put the fish in, the food is where it came from.

Gary

[njh]

I stand corrected!