breeding my own fish

[kate]

Hi all,
I am brand new to both aquaponics and this site. We have not yet installed our system - but soon hopefully! Any pitfalls I should be aware of as a novice?
I have searched the web for best fish varieties for the lower blue mountains - we do not plan to warm the water in winter. I have heard perch is good in cold water. I want the lowest maintenance possible. We have 3 x cubic metre tanks, and will convert our 20000L above ground pool as the main pond. Sound okay?
I have checked out finderling prices with a few websites - any suggestions there are welcome. What I am most interested in is being able to breed my own fish, so I never have to buy fingerlings again. It's not so much a finance issue, but we really want to become independent with our food production. It is an important goal for us.
So, which fish are most readily bred at home an an aquaponics system? How do I 'assist' - eg, stop eggs being eaten. How do I indentify male and female fish? Would i pull out a male and female and put them in one of the smaller cubic metre tanks for breeding, and then once the eggs are laid, put the parent fish back in the main pond?
Is there any literature that would support my forays into fish breeding? (Most of my seraches have come up with breeding goldfish, tropical fish etc).
Any help/advice is sincerely appreciated - and i hope oneday i am able to contribute something useful in return.
With thanks
kate

[Murray]

Hi Kate, you are most welcome here.
Ask as many questions as you like. You may not always get the answer straight away, but it will happen.
So much to cover.
Most Australian natives are particularly difficult to breed in captivity. The hatcheries use hormones at the right time to produce a result.
There are 4 day courses, one at Grafton TAFE that teaches how to do such things.
Some species are easy to breed in captivity but generally are not able to be eaten.
I recommend that you obtain "The Urban Aquaponics Manual" (http://www.aquaponics.net.au/prod5.htm) to give you a really good background in Aquaponics at home. The basics are covered there.
Silver Perch and/or Murray Cod would be best for you I feel. Water temp can become a real issue in winter. A good greenhouse to house your system will go a long way towards helping with temp issues.

PS, as Martin says, Yabbies are easily bred at home and are really good eating.

[Martin A1]

G'Day Kate and welcome! It's great to see more women getting onboard!!

Wow you have some ambitious plans there!

From most accounts, Silver Perch are your best bet I reckon'. You might also try a mixture of yabbies as well. I managed to breed some myself first season in so it can't be too hard see the thread on Yabbies under the FISH category

A great hatchery is here http://www.aquablueseafoods.com.au/. A further look into it and I reckon' you will find that there is a lot of science and investment on many levels that goes into fish breeding. As a novice I am leaving it to the experts.

But don't let me dampen your enthusiasm! Heck if you can prove a reliable way to breed your own fish then be sure to share the love with all on this forum.

Lastly, a 20,000ltr pool sounds awesome but rather scary for a novice like me all at the same time. I have struggled with getting my 1800 ltr system up and going (made some obvious mistakes in hindsight). I would recommend you start small and work upwards. Enjoy one last summer in your pool and spend the first twelve months getting your first few systems up and going.

There are plenty of people on the forum willing to share their ideas, knowledge and experience so you have come to the perfect place. Murray's recommendation to invest in the Manual by Gary is a good start. Trawl through the threads people have done on their new and established systems. You will get a lot of the good the bad and the ugly from the novice level like me all the way to guru's like Gary, Murray and Fishfood to name but a few.

What ever happens please keep us posted as your experience & contribution will be added to the collective pool of the forum for others to leverage!!

[echidna]

About the only fish that breed in farm dams are Sleepy Cod and Eel-tailed catfish and that seems to be a long-term proposition. Since for all intensive purposes you have a "farm dam" unless you want to get into hormone inducement, there's no current fish available except for the two I mentioned. Even then, you'll need to check NSW regulations as to whether they are acceptable species and whether your water temperatures will be within the acceptable ranges. As to becoming independent, perhaps you should consider that Aboriginal groups in northern Victoria practiced eel aquaculture for thousands of years and eels only breed in the ocean. Yes, elvers naturally found their way back to the water sources, but not having total control of the life cycle didn't stop a very long term and successful aquaculture industry.

[GaryD]

Hi Kate,

While I don't want to pour water on your ambition to breed your own fish, I would recommend that you get some experience at raising them first.

Aside from the specialised skills and knowledge you'll need to breed most native freshwater fish, you'll need suitable broodstock. Most hatchery operators are licensed to catch these from the wild.....and such licenses are difficult to obtain.

I love the idea of your use of a 20,000 litre pool to raise fish but, as Martin suggests, start off with something a little smaller until you develop your skills and confidence.....particularly since you already seem to have some smaller tanks.

.....and I endorse Murray's recommendation that you buy "The Urban Aquaponics Manual" (http://www.urbanaquaponics.com.au/) (as you'd expect).

Gary

[kate]

Wow, I am very thankful for the time you all took to respond.
We bought an aquaponics manual a year ago, and have been preparing ever since (including moving house last december) - i will check if it is the one you recommend - my husband is hoarding it somewhere. If ours is different, i shall invest in the one recommended. i wish I lived near Griffith - I would love to do a course.
We are happy to use the pool as a swimming pool for this hot season - the 13y.o. daughter is also pleased by this news!
To state the bleeding obvious, fish breed - it seems to be an animal kingdom impluse! I wonder what conditions make it more difficult for them to do it in captivity? I still aspire to achieve this. . . one day.
How quickly does perch mature (ie, how long before we can eat one), and how long do they live? Eventually when we do include our 20000L swimming pool, how many could be kept in there for their comfort? And if we ultimately ran 23000L of fish water though our garden system, would there be a minimum amount of garden beds required to adequately filter the fish water?
I am sure these are covered in the book you recommend.
I like the idea of yabbies, and I am sure my husband will love that!
I will also check out the stock site you recommended.
Thanks again - and I do love this site. It is the first time I have ever got involved in an internet forum - but somehow aquaponics matters a great deal to me!
Until next time,
thanks
Kate

[echidna]

Have a look at these two pages to see some of the process of inducing native fish to breed.

http://www.nativefish.asn.au/hatchery.html
http://www.nativefish.asn.au/basstrial.html

It can be done, but it's complicated and can be very expensive so for most people it's just easier to buy fingerlings from a reputable hatchery.

[Mr Big]

Go to Richmond TAFE they have a course on aquaculture one night a week, and they also have silver perch and cat fish in the front dam. If you want to learn about hatchery stuff go to natfish and do the course it takes about a week at Grafton. I did the course a few years ago. I worked in your area a few years ago and was called on the odd time to go and pull fingerings out of pools because fish had spawned. It can be done but watch out for fisheries they are cracking down on backyard breeders that do not have permits or council approval.(because of koi breeders) If they spawn do not try to sell them in NSW without the permit. Keep them for your self and good luck.

Good book silver perch culture by Stuart Rowland you get it from Fisheries at Grafton

[Murray]

That is so right echidna, but "one day" it is one of those things I would like to be able to do, but I would possibly still buy them from a hatchery.
Thanks Mr Big for the book title, that would be a good place to start.
That is interesting about the Silvers spawning. I delivered some grow beds to a guy near Noosa a few months back and he had two dams with heaps of Silvers in them. He said that he put some in the dams several years back and they spawn every other year or two. He felt it was to do with rainfall and how much fresh flowed through the dams.
Is that a possibility ?

[Mr Big]

In 1967 Lake a Biologist from Nsw fisheries was able to induce a spawning in a pond by quickly raising the water level only 15 cm once the temperture had reached 23 c. If fish do spawn in a pond, very few eggs will be recovered.

[Murray]

What is the issue with the recovery of the eggs ? Pardon my ignorance. Do the other fish eat them, or is there nothing like grasses and reeds for the eggs to lodge in ?

[Mr Big]

It makes them hard to collect. If done in swimming pool pull the breeders out.

[Murray]

This is really interesting, I will have to get that book and have a read. What water conditions do the eggs need to survive and hatch etc ? Do you collect them up and hatch them out in a small container ?
Too many questions...sorry
I had always thought it impossible to do without the use of hormones. It would be a wonderful achievement to be able to breed your own. I realise it would be difficult and far less trouble to just go buy fingerlings, but how satisfying to be able to breed your own !!!!!

I have 3 really big Silvers left over from last year, all over 1.6 kg. (and 2 Jades about 1kg each)
I guess the first thing is to find out if there is a pair amongst them. I was going to send them to the BBQ soon, but I think your info may have granted them a pardon :)

[kate]

Well, the recommended manual is not the one we got. Ours was a 'set up' manual, so this will be great, and I have ordered it. Thanks.
I am glad to see that there are some stories of fish breeding in captivity, and I have bookmarked the two sites for further reading. I shall also look at the later book recommended.
I know it is easier to get fingerlings from a seller, but I want to supply fish to my whole street, in perpetuum! It will be my gift to the community. We have an excellent street. I am in the local Community Fire Unit, along with my bloke. Good eggs! Hence the wish to breed them myself. I shall not sell them - it is not for profit, so there are no concerns about any of that - i just want self sufficiency (except for maybe making my own wine!)
It's all good.
I shall build my chicken dome this weekend, and start enriching my soil (ie clay), and get that part of my garden going this weekend.
Where did the year go?
Kate

[GaryD]

Hi Kate,



i just want self sufficiency (except for maybe making my own wine!)



Why pull up short of making your own wine. You can make wine out of virtually fruit or vegetable and I've encountered some superb examples of home-made wine. I concede that I've also encountered some horror stories, too.

Gary

[echidna]

Looks like Sleepy Cod are a No-No in NSW, along with Jade Perch.

http://www.fisheries.nsw.gov.au/aquatic_habitats/aquatic_habitats/importation_of_live_fish

[Murray]

Sleepy Cod and Jade perch are "A" category , which I understand can be kept in tanks that are properly housed etc. They cannot be placed in dams etc.

There are plenty of Silver Perch avbl from hatcheries in NSW already.

The Sleepy cod is a funny one, but once again my understanding is that it would be ok in tanks inside a shed etc.

[Feestar]

Hi Kate,

I also live in the lower blue mountains and we have been looking at setting up a system (But not quiet as large as yours :p). However i thought i would let you know that there is a hatchery that advertises in the Blue mountains Gazette and Hawkesbury Gazette which is in Bilpin. When i find out some more details i'll let you know. Who knows they may be able to give you some insight on how its all done.

Fiona

[kate]

Cool Fiona, it would be great to hook up (scuse the fish pun!), and pool ideas (scuse the other fish pun!).
I am also interested to note the local fish hatchery in Bilpin - sounds great. I await your advice - and will keep my eye out in the gazette.
as for home made wine from all manner of fruits, i would love to learn how to do it. apples i am sure are a great fruit for that. any others? any recommednations on recipes?

Once again, i have to say how great this forum is. I love it! thanks one and all.
kate

[GaryD]

Hi Kate,



as for home made wine from all manner of fruits, i would love to learn how to do it. apples i am sure are a great fruit for that. any others? any recommednations on recipes?


Cider comes from apples through a process which is pretty much the same as wine-making. All of the fruit and berries.....and vegetables like carrots, pumpkins and parsnips....are good for making wine.

Start off with a book or two on home wine-making from the local library.

Gary

[echidna]

Here's a detailed pdf on the process of breeding Tandanus tandanus.

www.nativefish.asn.au/files/nfa-tp1-tandanus.pdf

[beelove]

I love to make mead. just add one part honey to five parts h2o and put it in a bottle with some yeast and airlock. let it sit for six weeks up to two years in a cool place .Then get rid of the yeast at the bottom and drink up.

[morrie]

on a completely different tac - there are lots of aquarium fish that breed like rabbitts

i have no idea if any are edible or how they would work in an AP system

and getting rid of the babies can be a problem if you are just doing it for the ornamental market

anybody ever tried this??

cheers
ian

[GaryD]

Hi Ian,

I think that breeding aquarium fish may be an important route to home-grown fish food.

What particular species of easy to breed aquarium fish (that might make good fish food) come to mind?

Gary

[morrie]

hi gary
it seems some of the central american cichlids (Cichlasoma spp) are used in aquaculture - which may mean they are ediable to some degree?, some of the small to medium ones seem pretty easy to breed - i think the bigger ones might be either illegial or impractical in australia
not having eaten any i don't know how boney they are?
how tasty they are? ,
what sort of growth rates you get?
how tolerant they are of water condition suited to AP?

anyone given it a go?
cheers
ian