Getting ready to start a trial system

[gavinl]

Hi all:)

I have asked a few questions before about low-powered pumps for a system in Central/Norh Queensland, however time ran out and I am back overseas working in Asia. While I'm away from home, I was hoping to get a small scale trial system up and running before heading home and doing it all on a larger scale.

I will be overseas for 15 weeks...back in QLD for about 8 weeks, then back overseas, so my first question is if it's worthwhile starting up a system with this time schedule. I was hoping that once I had the system up and running, I might be able to try to automate it (maybe a tad overambitious..:)) or get some help while I'm away.

I have done some looking around and can get an aquarium built for a reasonable price out of glass - this looks to be my best solution at the moment for a fish tank. There also seems an abundance of pumps around and cheap feeder fish. The grow beds are proving more difficult to locate, but I'll keep on searching.

I was looking at a fish tank size of about 125 or 200 litre capacity and will try to get a grow bed with a ratio of 2:1. I am a bit unclear however of the process that I need to follow before growing plants and would appreciate any advice.

From what I've read so far, I am guessing that first I should get my tank filled with water (leave for a day or so to get rid of the chlorine), then fill my grow beds with gravel if possible. Then I think I should put seawol in the water and let it flood and drain the empty grow bed for about three weeks to get the bacteria growing. Now, I'm not 100% sure on the next step. I'm not sure whether to add fish at this stage, plants seeds, add seedlings or add fish and plants at the same time. Any advice what be appreciated.

Thanks and sorry for the marathon post.

gav:)

PS: I can get access to fish tank water from an aquarium shop. Is it worth getting and if so where do I put it ie in with the other water in my fish tank?
PS: do I need any other hardware?

[Murray]

Hi GavinL,
I believe you are on the right track. Get a small amount of water/gunk from their filter, from the aquarium shop, it will speed things up.
If you cannot get a grow bed of sorts that is 300mm deep, get one as near to it as you can. or a number of decent plant pots of 300mm deep will do the job.

See Gary's satellite pot photographs as a possible way to go.
http://www.aquaponicshq.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167&page=6

It is easier to manage a ratio of 1:1 fish tank to grow bed, in the beginning, or even 1 fish tank to .75 grow bed.
The fish tank volume to grow bed volume ratio is only a rule of thumb, it is really about the amount of fish waste and therefore the nutrients that are produced and the plants consuming the nutrients that need to be balanced.

I reckon, go for it GavinL.
Will you have someone to look after it for you while you are away ? That might be a problem ?

And I would really recommend you get "The Manual (http://www.aquaponics.net.au/prod5.htm)" It is worth every cent.

Murray

[gavinl]

Thanks Murray :)

I will start by having a smaller ratio and see how it goes. Looking at Gary's photos of his pot plants, it looks like he has two pots - one inside the other. If that's the case, would the insdie one have the normal pot holes and the outside one be holeless,except for where the drain pipe is located?

Thanks heaps

gav

[gavinl]

Thanks Murray :)

I will start by having a smaller ratio and see how it goes. Looking at Gary's photos of his pot plants, it looks like he has two pots - one inside the other. If that's the case, would the insdie one have the normal pot holes and the outside one be holeless,except for where the drain pipe is located?

Thanks heaps

gav

[sillyoldfart]

Thanks Murray :)

I will start by having a smaller ratio and see how it goes. Looking at Gary's photos of his pot plants, it looks like he has two pots - one inside the other. If that's the case, would the insdie one have the normal pot holes and the outside one be holeless,except for where the drain pipe is located?

Thanks heaps

gav

Absolutely correct Gavin

[Murray]

Hi GavinL,
Yes, your assumption about Gary's satellite pots is correct. There is one inside the other. The inside one is a standard pot plant pot, and the outer one comes with no holes at all.
If you need to, it is easy to lift out the inside pot to replant, or whatever, without disturbing the outer pot and the pipework.
You drill a hole and fit the appropriate pipe fitting in the outer pot.
I do not have any satellite pots as yet but I intend to have 3 or four hanging off my system when I finish the new greenhouse.
Evidently these pots are obtainable at most Hydro shops.

Murray

[gavinl]

Thanks heaps Murray. It sounds like a good way to do it - I'll have a good look at finding them in Macau. :)

gav

[gavinl]

Thanks Silly and Murray.

After searching high and dry for aquaponic pots with no luck, I reckon I'll have to go another way. Being in China, ceramic pots are everywhere and pretty cheap and seem to have one hole in the bottom. I'm going to try and get some normal plastic potplant pots about 30 cm deep, fill them with gravel and then put them in a bigger ceramic pot. This will mean that the water will drain through the normal pot plant and out of the ceramic
pot. I will then try and drain the ceramic pot directly into the fish tank - by placing the ceramic pot plants directly over the tank (using a bench setup).

I was wondering if you both reckon that the normal holes in the plastic pot plant pots will be enough or perhaps too much. Also, if I have a deeper ceramic pot (say about 35cm), would it be okay to deliberately overfill the plastic pot plant pots (about 5cm over their surface level) or is it best to just fill them upto the right level?

I will try and set up a flood and drain system like Gary's, but being my first one....we'll see.:)

Thanks and all the best and any advice is greatly appreciated.

gav

[Murray]

GavinL,
Anything will do for a start up system, the pots sound like a good idea.
Just start something small.
Just fill them to their right level. 30 cm is actually just right to grow stuff in.
Just use any course gravel you can get your hands on easily. I use 20mm drainage gravel. Works well.
And situation the grow pots above the tank will work ok too. You need to devise a method of flooding and then draining the pots.

Murray

[gavinl]

Thanks Murray:)

Out of interest, would you be able to get a price on shipping your 250l grow bed to Macau?

Additionally, wondering if it is okay to grow vegies in any plastic pot or if it has to be food grade - very hard to tell here.

Thanks gav

[Murray]

Hi GavinL,
I have your email about the freight and I will get back to you.
The plastic question is one that usually brings some different opinions. It depends on how fussy you are. Loads of people grow stuff in those plastic rectangular bins you can get at most hardware stores these days. They only cost a few dollars each. Most of them around 350mm deep. They need to have the sides supported with some sort of frame as they are not too strong really, once full of water or gravel. Their life span would not be very long.
They are a great way to start.
Long term I would be wanting to grow my fish and veggies in fiberglass or food safe plastic, but as a starter system I would give the low cost plastic bins a run.
Murray

[gavinl]

Hi Murray.:)

I ended up buying some cheap eskies for the time being. I figure they should use food quality plastic and they also have a drain already built in. I'll be buying a cheap aquarium and pump tomorrow and will find gravel soon.

Thanks heaps mate
gav

[Murray]

Great idea, they are insulated too !!!
Freighting a 250 ltr grow bed to where you are would cost an "arm and a leg"

[gavinl]

Hi again:)

I'm getting closer to getting my fish in now. I have the gravel in the eskies...have got the seeds ordered and have the timings right and flow control working for the water. Struck a few problems as I only am using a 12w pump with 1m head, so had to do a little lifting and dropping...:)

II was wondering however, how to add the bacteria. I have bought some from the local aquarium guys here and they have suggested mixing it with a small amount of water and putting it in the growbeds. I was wondering whether it should be poured on top or if I should remove some gravel and pour it on and then replace the removed gravel - to stop the light/sun from killing the vacteria. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Additionally, as I have no fish and would like to have some amonia so the bacteria will stay alive, the aquarium fellows said to through in a little fish food to keep the amonia up. Does this sound all right or should I jjust get some feeder fish and expect the worse?

Lastly...I'd appreciae advice on how long I will I need to cycle the water and grow the bacteria until I can put fish in that will survive and also grow plants that will grow. Are plants needed straight away? Or can I plant my seeds and use the seaweed extract to keep them alive without fish? This seems a little chicken and egg situation.:)

Sorry for all the questions

gav:)

[fishfood]

Hi again:)

I'm getting closer to getting my fish in now. I have the gravel in the eskies...have got the seeds ordered and have the timings right and flow control working for the water. Struck a few problems as I only am using a 12w pump with 1m head, so had to do a little lifting and dropping...:)

II was wondering however, how to add the bacteria. I have bought some from the local aquarium guys here and they have suggested mixing it with a small amount of water and putting it in the growbeds. I was wondering whether it should be poured on top or if I should remove some gravel and pour it on and then replace the removed gravel - to stop the light/sun from killing the vacteria. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Additionally, as I have no fish and would like to have some amonia so the bacteria will stay alive, the aquarium fellows said to through in a little fish food to keep the amonia up. Does this sound all right or should I jjust get some feeder fish and expect the worse?

Lastly...I'd appreciae advice on how long I will I need to cycle the water and grow the bacteria until I can put fish in that will survive and also grow plants that will grow. Are plants needed straight away? Or can I plant my seeds and use the seaweed extract to keep them alive without fish? This seems a little chicken and egg situation.:)

Sorry for all the questions

gav:)just stick a couple of goldfish in to keep everything going

[Murray]

That's right, as FF says, add a couple of low cost fish of some sort. The fish food you use to feed the couple or so fishies will also help. Plant some plants and spray them with Seasol (seaweed extract) It will keep the plants going and help with the bacteria. Just pour the bacteria mixture onto the bed and water it in with some water from your new system. It will find a home down there pretty quickly.
It is always exciting starting a new system.

[gavinl]

Thanks Fishfood and Murray

I'll get some fish and post a few pictures once it's up and running.

gav:)

[gavinl]

Hi again:)

Just wondering whether it is okay to completely submerge my gravel with water for about 5-10 minutes.

Thanks

gav

[fishfood]

Flooding your gravel will lead to algi buildup on top and evaperation you will find most people flood to 1 in under the surface

[GaryD]

Hi Gavin,

While I agree in principle with the idea of limiting your flooding to about 25mm below the gravel, the reality is that, since I always have small seedlings in my system these days, I frequently allow the water to flood the bed (to ensure that the seedlings get a drink and to cool the gravel off on a hot day).....usually without any real problem.

If I do experience a build up of algae, I use a pressure filter to clear it up.

Gary

[gavinl]

Thanks Fishfood and Gary:)

I have started germinating my seeds in a sponge and was wondering if it is possible to cut the sponge into separate pieces that the individual seeds are on and put them directly into the gravel. If so, should I make sure that all the leaves are above the water level when flooding? Lastly, just wondering where you get your timers from. I bought one in Macau and after a lot of mucking around, have discovered that the 15 minute increment is actually a 23 minute increment, which is not that great when flooding based on 15 minute levels.

Thanks heaps

gav

[Murray]

Hi Gavinl,
I raise my seedlings in seed trays which are filled with fine seed raising mixture or fine coco peat, whatever I have. When the seedling is ready to go in, I just put it, together with all of the seed raising mixture that has become part of the root mass, directly into the gravel. Works well. In fact, the more seed raising mixture that is adheared to the roots of the seedling the better the plant does. Less transplant shock.
A bit of coco peat or similar in the grow bed won't hurt the grow bed.
Yes, make sure the leaves are above while flooding, although it possibly won't make a lot of difference anyway. The seedling would only be submerged for a few minutes every cycle.
I hear what the others are saying about flooding levels, but I do not allow my beds to come up any higher than about 25mm below the top of the gravel. I only have tank water and I just do not want to waste any water to evaporation etc.
I use a small watering can to water the newly transplanted seedlings for the first week or 10 days, until I am sure they have put their roots down into the water. I use water out of the fish tank for this purpose.

I have not had any luck with timers for the same reason. So called 15 minute timers are 20 minutes one cycle and 12 minutes the next, so I don't bother with them. I rely on float switches to do the job.
I would love to have the brand name of a good reliable, accurate timer.
Murray

[Laurie]

Hi, Murray & others.

The timers that my members use & I sell, is the ; ANARTELLE ET12 Digital Timer.
You you can program these from only a few seconds to whatever length of time you want.
The cost of them are about $50.00 and should be available at Bunnings, Hydroponic stores and Electrical outlets.

This is only a suggestion.
Laurie.

[fishfood]

Thanks Fishfood and Gary:)

I have started germinating my seeds in a sponge and was wondering if it is possible to cut the sponge into separate pieces that the individual seeds are on and put them directly into the gravel. If so, should I make sure that all the leaves are above the water level when flooding? Lastly, just wondering where you get your timers from. I bought one in Macau and after a lot of mucking around, have discovered that the 15 minute increment is actually a 23 minute increment, which is not that great when flooding based on 15 minute levels.

Thanks heaps

gavGav careful of using sponges some have anti mould chemical in them the fish may not like it if you want to do that use those rockwool bloks from the hydro shops

[Murray]

Hi Laurie,
Please email or fax me an invoice for one of those timers and I will direct deposit the money plus post
Fax is 07 3297 5154

Sounds like the very thing I have been looking for.

And Gavinl, those are good looking grow beds !!! I am sure they will do the trick.
FF's comment re the sponge possibly containing some additive that could be damaging is a good point...I had not thought of that.

Murray