Small Scale Sytem I put together

[Cecil]

I recently built this rotating biofilter, siphon tube, and clarifier thanks to the book Small Scale Aquaculture by Steven Van Gorder. The tank is an undersized epoxy coated stock tank, which will have to do for now.

Note: I got rid of the 't' and clean out (part of the siphon) as it was probably allowing minute amounts of air to get sucked in which eventually shut down the siphon. And there is no need for the 't' to facilitate filling the siphon for flow priming, as once the flow is established it can be kept going by capping one end when removal of the inflow end and cleaning of the clarifier is need. After removing the 't' and making sure all joints are glued property with no leaks, I have had no problems with the siphon.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/CecilBaird1/RAS007.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/CecilBaird1/RAS014.jpg

I'm trying to get the tank cycling by adding ammonia. However I've just realized the "surfactant" added to the household ammonia that was purchased at the local grocery story is actually a detergent which is a is a big no no.

The plan is to plant into the tank fingerlings of a local native fish known as bluegills (Lepomis macrochirus) to see what kind of growth I can get indoors, at a consistent temperature, vs. outdoors which is much colder than optimum this time of year. However, I'm going to have to add a heater as temps aren't getting above 19 C. due to the RAS being in the basement. Best temps for fast growth and for nitrification would probably be in the 25 C. range.

Anyone else build an RBC or is familar with the book? It's great softcover book and runs about $25.00 American dollars. It briefly covers Aquaponics, and various fish systems such as cages, flow through etc. I have no vested interest in plugging the book just think it's a great book.

I presently grow out several species of fish in my four outdoor ponds, but I'm very interested in RA systems for all their advantages.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/CecilBaird1/Aerialproperty.jpg

[GaryD]

Hi Cecil,

I love the ponds on your place. What do you grow in them?

I've used trickling bio-filters extensively but I've never put together an RBC like the one in your photo.

What's the advantage of using such a device?


Gary

[Cecil]

Hi Cecil,

I love the ponds on your place. What do you grow in them?



http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/CecilBaird1/Aerialproperty.jpg

The biggest pond, which is on the front of the property is for grow out of female only yellow perch (Perca flavescens), male only bluegill (Lepomis macrochirus) and smallmouth bass (Micropterus dolomieu). Ideally the bluegill and yellow perch reproduction takes place in the back two smaller parallel ponds in the spring. In the fall the offspring are seined out of the ponds and put into floating cages into the biggest pond. Edit: I no longer move them to cages but to RAS tanks into the basement for the winter.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/CecilBaird1/cages006.jpg

Once they can be sexed a couple of springs later for the male bluegills and the following spring for the female yellow perch, these mono sexes are released from the cages and planted into the same pond. No reproduction in this pond ensures there are not a multitude of mouths to feed, and these particular sexes of the two grow the largest and the fastest. These fish have been feed trained in the production pond (I use lights to feed train the yellow perch), and are kept on pellets for the most part, although there are hundreds of thousands of free roaming forage fish in the pond (fathead minnows Phimepales promelas). That will probably change once the smallmouth fingerlings I planted become larger. Most likely the fathead minnows which are slow moving will be cropped down. Edit: That panned out as no fatheads to be found and even some incidental bluegills due to a some escapes from a cage and subsequent reproduction are not evident.

The back center pond (the one in front of the two paired ponds) was my trophy trout pond,

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/CecilBaird1/bkt09harvest003.jpg

(This is my neighbor with a 12 pound brown trout my biggest trout from the pond)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/CecilBaird1/Dan_with_Brown.jpg


but I may use it for the production of pumpkinseed sunfish (Lepomis gibbosus). I'm going to pick up broodfish in New York state in the spring. I've been having some disease and predator issues with my brook trout and may eventually go with an RAS for trout production. Edit: Did not pick up pumpkinseeds and decided not to.

I produce trophy size fish for two niche markets: Fish taxidermists (frozen) and a chain sporting goods store that has large display tanks in each retail store. I'm considering raising fish for native fish enthusiasts that keep native species in aquariums. The fish growing is a sideline at this time with being a fish taxidermist my main occupation.


I've used trickling bio-filters extensively but I've never put together an RBC like the one in your photo.

What's the advantage of using such a device?

Gary



I'm new to this but from what I understand a trickling bio-filter can clog up over time? The RBC doesn't clog up and as it rotates it exposes the aerobic bacteria clinging to it's surface area to oxygen but not enough to dry them out. They do get heavier over time as the bacteria builds up but mine shouldn't be a problem as there is plenty of flotation.

[GaryD]

Hi Cecil,


I'm new to this but from what I understand a trickling bio-filter can clog up over time?

If you're putting so much in the way of solid material through a trickling bio-filter that it clogged up, you'd have killed the fish anyway.

They actually require very little maintenance when combined with some sort of solids removal device like a settling tank, swirl filter or clarifier, they give no trouble at all.

They ofter good nitrification and aeration.

Gary

[Cecil]

Hi Cecil,



If you're putting so much in the way of solid material through a trickling bio-filter that it clogged up, you'd have killed the fish anyway.

They actually require very little maintenance when combined with some sort of solids removal device like a settling tank, swirl filter or clarifier, they give no trouble at all.

They ofter good nitrification and aeration.

Gary

Interesting. It would have been easier to build too! :eek: Cutting those fiberglass pieces for the RBC with a hand held jig saw was hard work! I also went through several blades. I wouldn't do it again without a bandsaw. But I do like to watch it rotate and it does have 600 square feet of surface area. :p

Here's a packed column I used to aerate ground water and blow off nitrogen gas before it went to my trout pond. Pretty much looks like a trickling filter doesn't it? It has plastic media in it. Notice the iron build up. I'm using an iron filter with the RAS. Edit: The commercial iron filter was a disappointment. It didn't perform very long. I have since come up with my own by simply running borehole water that had bee sprayed into the tank via a garden hose nozzle (adds oxygen to the water) back and forth between two 55 gallon drums through filter material to trap the iron particles.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/CecilBaird1/pkcol009.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/CecilBaird1/pkcol002.jpg

[GaryD]

Hi Cecil,


Here's a packed column I used to aerate ground water and blow off nitrogen gas before it went to my trout pond. Pretty much looks like a trickling filter doesn't it? It has plastic media in it. Notice the iron build up. I'm using an iron filter with the RAS.


With plastic media inside of it, that column would definitely function as a bio-filter.

Does the iron in your water affect the taste of your fish?

Gary

[Cecil]

Hi Cecil,



With plastic media inside of it, that column would definitely function as a bio-filter.

Does the iron in your water affect the taste of your fish?

Gary

I don't know I don't eat the trout. They are worth too much to eat. They are sold whole frozen to taxidermists and replica makers. If I can get a brook trout (Salvelinus fontinalis) to 5 lbs. or over I can easily sell it for a minimum of $100.00. Unfortunately some pond issues and subsequent stress induced disease with the brook trout this year precluded that. I have no problems with brown trout but brook trout are very sensitive and require colder water.

Here's is why they are so coveted by taxidermists. Aren't they a beautiful fish? I enhanced the colors on this one with astaxanthin premixed in the feed to bring out the reds.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/CecilBaird1/bkt09harvest003.jpg

The iron does stress them a little although the larger the fish the less it effects them. It irritates their gills as it collects on their gills.

My goal in the future will be to grow out my trout in an RA system in a building where I can mitigate pathogens, better control water quality and temperature, and keep predators away. I had a mink visit this spring and I had a number of trout come up missing. Whether it was him or disease I don't know, but I can't account for about 40 fish. Also if I need less flow I should be able to remove the iron before it gets to the fish.

[GaryD]

Hi Cecil,



I don't know I don't eat the trout. They are worth too much to eat.

And how's that working for you? The mink seems to have his priorities sorted.;)

Gary

[Cecil]

Hi Cecil,


And how's that working for you? The mink seems to have his priorities sorted.;)

Gary

The mink is no more. He was eliminated as soon as he was spotted. :cool:

Here is a link to where I'm selling them -- much less than if they were bigger:

http://www.taxidermytalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1015

[kellenw]

That book is actually on my Christmas list this year. Hope I get it!

Absolutely love that RBC. I'm planning on building one for my new system. I have lots of winter work ahead of me.

[Cecil]

That book is actually on my Christmas list this year. Hope I get it!

Absolutely love that RBC. I'm planning on building one for my new system. I have lots of winter work ahead of me.

Get with me before you cut some of the PVC pieces. There are some minor errors in the book due to changing from one model to the next but the changes were not made in the book. I.e. you need to cut the paddles out of 4 inch PVC vs. 3 inch., and some of the frame measurements given are incorrect. But still the book is worth its weight in gold. Also don't even think of cutting the fiberglass roofing without a bandsaw. I used a hand held jig saw and I went through not only several blades but it was really really hard work that way! Also it's imperative that your 4 allignment holes are perfectly square from each other. Otherwise you will have problems when you rotate each piece of fiberglass 90 degrees. I made the mistake of using a line that was part of the angles and was slightly off. It made for problems although it all turned out fine in the end.

I'm sending a copy to Gary to do an overview. I've never sent anything down under. This is exciting! :p

One more thing: There have been some outrageous prices listed for the book on the net. You shouldn't have to pay over 25 or 30 U.S. dollars for it. Amazon.com has some copies and I've seen some copies for sale just under 20 U.S. dollars.

[fishfood]

What book are we talking about!

[Cecil]

What book are we talking about!

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/CecilBaird1/book.jpg

[Cecil]

Here is where I messed up and it caused me some grief. I drilled some of the alignment holes in line with the marks that were originally made by the protractor to set the positions of the paddle wheels. I should have redrawn lines perfectly perpendicular of each other instead to form a cross. As I rotated each piece of fiberglass 90 degrees they didn't align perfectly and I had to make the holes larger in the fiberglass for them to fit. :eek:

I love the pattern the PVC pieces that produced the paddles made though. :)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/CecilBaird1/RBC001.jpg

Here's a close up of the RBC itself although it is temporarily backwards on the frame. (Hey I was learning :p) At that point I was just happy to get the thing completed! The paddles are in the middle.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/CecilBaird1/RBC040.jpg


Here is the frame minus the filter itself.


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/CecilBaird1/ironfilter005.jpg

The frame actually floats somewhat and the RBC ideally submerges about half way or slightly less initially before the bacteria film weights it down. I had to suspend the frame over my tank as the tank is less than half of the diameter of what it should have been. This RBC was designed for a 12 diameter swimming pool. It's supposed to be able to handle over 100 pounds of fish and has 600 square feet of surface area. This RBC is essentially the same one that was used in the Biosphere II project in Arizona years ago.

[kellenw]

Thanks for the tip Cecil. I remember you mentioning something about this on PB also. I can imagine the initial grief with the hole issue. Thanks for saving me a little stress! Unfortunately, I don't currently have a bandsaw, even though I've really wanted one for quite a while now. This might be just the excuse I need to get one finally. I guess I could try using my table saw with a ripper guide and fine toothed blade IF the blade adjustment will go high enough to fully cut through the pipe.

While my new system will include growbeds, fish are the primary focus. Growbeds are really just a part of the overall water quality management strategy, so I almost hesitate to call it an aquaponics system.

I'm also considering trying my hand at a prototype I've thought up for a pressurized coil oxygen/air injection system. If it works the way I am hoping, it could REALLY increase my carrying capacity.

I plan on pushing my new system to the limits with incredibly high density fish stocking. I'll get a lot of forgiveness from tilapia when it comes to water quality, but I'm also planning on growing out some of our more familiar pond fish (yellow perch, bluegill, smallmouth bass and white bass) if it works well. They will be a lot more demanding than tilapia at higher densities.

Cecil, I don't suppose you know of any US based white bass suppliers do you? It seems like I've searched everywhere, without any luck at all.

[Cecil]

Just a note Kellenw, cutting the pipes wasn't so bad with a chop saw. It was cutting the 50 fiberglass circles that was a nightmare! I would strongly advise getting a bandsaw! I may end up building two or three more and joining them together as in this system in the book Small Scale Aquaculture. If so I WILL have a bandsaw!

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a169/CecilBaird1/greenhouse.jpg

Don't know of a source for white bass. I know where you can catch a boatload of wild fish but most likely you couldn't bring them into Missouri due to it being in a Great Lakes state and the VHS threat.

Did you contact any suppliers of hybrid striped bass and ask if they would sell you any white bass?

Have you tried talking to a biologist named Bobby Glennon of Malone and Sons in Arkansas? The guy answered a lot of my questions for me when he had no ulterior motive. He's the one that has experimented with Magnolia crappie, triploid crappie etc. Malone and Sons were the first to come out with triploid grass carp.

[GaryD]

Hi,

While rotating biological contactors (RBC) are not new in aquaculture circles, they are rare in aquaponics......and particularly those that are DIY and cost effective to make.

I'm looking forward to learning more about them.

Gary

[Cecil]

Hi,

While rotating biological contactors (RBC) are not new in aquaculture circles, they are rare in aquaponics......and particularly those that are DIY and cost effective to make.

I'm looking forward to learning more about them.

Gary

Some say they are obsolete. However I see this as gaining valuable experience so I can make intelligent decisions in the future to decide what system would be better for me for a possible commercial system. And like you said it's much cheaper to build things yourself.

I've been looking at protein skimmers and don't see why one could not make one of those too.

[GaryD]

Hi Cecil,

My understanding is that protein skimmers work best with salt water.

I support your position on water quality but I tend toward solids removal and nitrification devices that let gravity or particle attraction do most of the work.....like sedimentation tanks, clarifiers, swirl filters, mineralisation tanks and trickling bio-filters.

Gary

[Cecil]

Hi Cecil,

My understanding is that protein skimmers work best with salt water.

You're absolutely right but I think I saw one used in freshwater the other day in an RAS set up for brook trout. I'll have to look again. From what I gather it's imperative to get the water cleaner in an RAS for the trout than most other species. I do know from personal experience their gills get irritated easier than my other species of fish.


I support your position on water quality but I tend toward solids removal and nitrification devices that let gravity or particle attraction do most of the work.....like sedimentation tanks, clarifiers, swirl filters, mineralisation tanks and trickling bio-filters. Gary

Makes excellent sense. Why use electricity when you can make gravity work for you. I use that principal in my outdoor ponds. The well (borehole) is at the highest point of the property and I can move the well water anywhere I want for filling or flow through by opening and closing underground gate valves at junctions of 4 inch PVC buried underground.

I'm looking forward to reading the book you are sending me. Sounds like lots of good information.

[kellenw]

I've read a little on protein skimmers used in freshwater, and it seems properly designed for freshwater, they can do a lot of good. Note that I've never used any firsthand in my own systems, and my knowledge of them is pretty basic.

From what I understand, when used in high density feed intensive freshwater systems, they help reduce dissolved proteins (proteins in solution) quite well.

Some bigger aquaculture equipment vendors in the US like Aquatic Eco-systems sell some pretty impressive (and expensive) freshwater protein skimmers.

It seems their benefit is really with very feed intensive operations. If you feed enough to give your water that familiar brownish red (rusty) tint that you get in a high density aquaculture system even when it is otherwise crystal clear, it appears a protein skimmer would go a long way in fixing that.

[Cecil]

Makes sense to me. I hear that brown color is tannins from the feed in systems where they feed a lot and push them to the limit.

Yeah AES has some cool stuff. A little overpriced but really cool. I'm convinced I could build a lot of the stuff they sell if I put my mind to it, and I will.

Edit:

Turns out the brown color can be produced even without pushing the carrying capacity to the limit. At least that's the case with me. I've been told the particular feed I use has a propensity to do that.

[kellenw]

AES used to sell a lot of overstock stuff on ebay. Everything was buy now or make offer. I made some seriously low offers on a lot of things, and not once was one turned down by them. I was sad to discover they quit selling overstock on ebay recently.

[Cecil]

AES used to sell a lot of overstock stuff on ebay. Everything was buy now or make offer. I made some seriously low offers on a lot of things, and not once was one turned down by them. I was sad to discover they quit selling overstock on ebay recently.

Wow I didn't know that. I'd love to get some of their stuff cheap! :p

[kellenw]

Wow I didn't know that. I'd love to get some of their stuff cheap! :p

Yea, they had some amazing deals on ebay.

Unfortunately, I just received some hatching jars from AES today that are absolute garbage. I sent them an email, so we'll see how that goes. I expressed a bit of frustration since I was planning to use them for about 2,500-3,000 tilapia eggs I need to strip from females this weekend. I have faith in them though. They've always been great to deal with. Back to the jars though. Basically, fantastic design, but the worst plumbing assembly I've ever seen. I went ahead and tried them out anyway just for the sake of satisfying my own curiosity (test run in fresh water and no eggs). Within minutes both of them began leaking at the joints! One was leaking an actual stream of water! My hatching tank would have been completely empty by morning. Imagine if I had eggs and fry in there. What a huge loss that could have been. These things have threaded joints glued to non-threaded pvc couplers, a single-barbed ball valve designed for hooking to vinyl tubing glued to pvc couplers on both ends, a threaded outflow piece glued directly to the plastic body of the jar with no gasket or anything, a threaded 90 degree joint glued to yet another pvc coupler, etc. A master plumber would have a heart attack if he saw these things.

I couldn't believe these low grade jars came from AES. I also ordered a Mcdonald hatching jar along with the smaller jars (major overkill for me, but I always wanted one). It's a brilliant piece of equipment, but considering it can do up to about 500,000 tilapia eggs (or about 100,000 trout eggs) at one time, I was hoping the smaller ones could be used for now. They are more my scale at this time. :) Looks like I'll either have to "fix" the small jars myself or fire up the Mcdonald hatcher. If I have to use the Mcdonald though, I'll have to run out and grab another mag drive pump for it because I don't have the right one at the moment since I wasn't planning on using it quite yet.

I'll post a follow up when I hear from AES. I'm sure they'll make it right.