Making a living with Aquaponics

[daniel]

I am having one of those weeks.

You know the ones where you want to change to a completely different career.

I was just musing about creating a system big enough to turn a decent profit. I don't suppose this is something you can build up too in a back yard.

Otherwise, does anyone know if there are many small holders/farmers who produce enough to subsidise their day to day lives?

Thanks in advance

[Murray]

I have been doing a bit of thinking about that myself Daniel. There are so many variables.
What crop will be best to produce ? and where will it be sold ? Just a starter.

[Handyandy]

Hi all,

I am new to the forum, so I hope I am doing things correctly?!!

I am interested in going "commercial" with aquaponics, so am after any info anyone has.

I have seen a site at www.aquaponic.com.au called Integrated Aquaponic Solutions. The guys name is Wilson Lennard (he reckons he has a Doctorate as well?). Does anyone know anything about him, and whether he knows what he is talking about because he reckons he is a consultant for commercial systems?

Is the info on his site correct? Does anyone know of him or anything about him? has anyone seen his Commercail system (pic's on his site)?

Any info would be welcomed.

Handyandy

[daniel]

yes. it strikes me that the fish are the money makers, but then again, you could probably produce veg and herbs a lot quicker and more regularly..

Markets are an option for selling produce, or even restaurants. Speaking to a chef and seeing what they consume the most of wouldn't hurt. I reckon these guys would be a more viable market than say a fruit and veg shop.

[Murray]

I think it would be a lot easier to sell veggies and or herbs than the fish. If you were to sell the fish live there would be no regs to deal with, but the moment you started to process the fish in any way you would need to comply with local council food handling regulations etc.
Ok if you had a few spare dollars to make a small commercial food processing facility.
I know from my own experience that it is very easy to sell live fish to the local Asian community. Once the word gets out you would need to lock your gates.......:D

[Handyandy]

Hi Murray,

Thanks for moving the thread. I am really after some info on commercial stuff and in particular, this guy Wilson Lennard. He seems to say that he knows alot, but it is hard to find anyone with any knowledge of him and his services? So, do you think this present thread will help me with that?

I think this forum may turn into a a bit of a beast for me, I have a lot to learn and there seems to be SO much here!

Handyandy

[etacwa]

Gee handy you get around!
I see you are a member on both sites. (No pun intended)

No wonder you have so much reading.

[Murray]

Wilson Leonard is between projects at the moment. He has experience in setting up a commercial system. Perhaps you should contact him directly yourself. He has a website which no doubt you have found already.
The reading is not to much really, but that is up to you.

[sunnyside]

Depends where you are... check your zoning laws first and make sure you have the appropriate licenses and permits. Determine your breakeven and work backwards :)
It's a lot easier in rural areas - where I am I can sell produce direct from the farm gate without licenses. Yabbies are like free-range Australorp eggs - they sell themselves (about $5 each for 200g yabbies). If you can find local markets so much the better. Years ago when I lived in the suburbs I sold/bartered my excess fruit and vege with the IGA across the road. In my (limited) experience your friends and neighbours are your best customers and will buy in advance.
Someone else in the forum suggested contacting local restaurants. That is good advice, however I would suggest overgrowing/stocking as the chef usually wants to order in advance and will not take kindly to substandard or shortages. Keep 'em happy and you'll get good customers. Telling chef at 5am that you don't have the basil and tomatoes they want... not good, not printable here.
Hope this helps a little...

[sillyoldfart]

Wilson Leonard is between projects at the moment.

Back in my day, that kind of euphermism meant someone had either gone belly up, had a falling out with financial backers or partners or had lost the lease on the premises and been asked to move.... :lol:

[Murray]

I much prefer to say he is between projects as that is exactly the way it is. Not every project is profitable and there is always the next one.

[GaryD]

Hi Daniel,



....it strikes me that the fish are the money makers...


In most commercial aquaponic systems, it's the salad vegetables and herbs that are the principal source of income. Fish are very much a back end to the plant business.

Tom Speraneo (creator of the Bioponics concept) is quoted as saying that he eventually had a production ratio of 45 - 70:1....plants to fish.

I'd recommend that aspiring entrepreneurs consider a broader product range than that provided for in aquaponics. Consider more of an integrated approach where the fish and salads/herbs are supported by other small premium food production ventures......like organic broiler chickens in chicken tractors......farmed rabbits (if you don't live in Qld) or organic pigs reared in pig tractors.

Complimentary ventures like worms, Black Soldier flies and duckweed would extend the integration even further.

The broader the integrated agri/aquaculture program, the greater the opportunities to leverage your use of all of the outputs and to maximise your income.

Gary

[sillyoldfart]

I much prefer to say he is between projects as that is exactly the way it is. Not every project is profitable and there is always the next one.

Ahh, I thought you response was a little guarded Murray. I see that along with your involvement with the new aquaponics retail outlet you are investigating commercial sized applications.

http://www.aquaponics-shop.com/commercial/

Can you tell us roughly what sort of costs might be projected for a system about the size shown?

[Murray]

SOF, You will have to give me a call on that one. You will be able to find my phone number on my web site, www.aquaponics.net.au (http://www.aquaponics.net.au)

[daniel]

Hi Daniel,

I'd recommend that aspiring entrepreneurs consider a broader product range than that provided for in aquaponics. Consider more of an integrated approach where the fish and salads/herbs are supported by other small premium food production ventures......like organic broiler chickens in chicken tractors......farmed rabbits (if you don't live in Qld) or organic pigs reared in pig tractors.

Complimentary ventures like worms, Black Soldier flies and duckweed would extend the integration even further.

The broader the integrated agri/aquaculture program, the greater the opportunities to leverage your use of all of the outputs and to maximise your income.

Gary

Thanks Gary, Sounds like what my back yard is turning into. I have never seriously considered it a money making exercise. More of a step towards "future proofing" myself. Apart from this, I quite enjoy the whole process. Making money through "micro farming" is simply a dream to keep me amused at work.

One day I would love to move to acreage. I think if you had more land, the chances of doing something that could earn a bit of money would be a lot better.

[Murray]

Daniel,
I believe it is very possible to make a modest living from Aquaponics on a very small piece of land. What I mean is an income earning living as distinct from becoming as near as possible to self sufficient.
Although I guess if you are producing a variety of food such as Gary does and a modest cash income from your small plot of land, then you are self sufficient in a way .
We all know how good the produce is from our aquaponic systems.
Visitors who come to see my system just love the veggies
I am working on a plan to put together a small system as a test run in my back paddock.
I will post the details up soon for comment and input.

[Martin A1]

I also share the desire to make a living from this concept but I think the reality is more about self sustainability and a small group of citizens changing the world as daniel's footer quote states.

We all need money to live off but imagine if we could give healthy sustainable food production back to the masses. Start with the kids.. they will get it.

[Murray]

Exactly MartinA1, Start with the kids !!! The church up the road from me is thinking of putting a system in. Some of the younger parents want to teach the local kids about gardening. A great community project.
The idea is to have a good sized greenhouse with a small AP system in one end and the remaining 75% as a "no dig" garden. The local kids who want to participate can have a square mtr each etc,
The older church folk like the idea but are afraid of vandalism, who is going to look after it etc,etc......... All valid concerns.
Trouble is these days most families are very time poor with mum and dad working etc. (Perhaps mum would not have to work full time if they did not want two of the latest 4x4's and that 2 mtr wide plasma with surround sound, and live in a house with 4 beds, study, home theater and two Grecian columns in front ) ......

So, who has got time to get involved in such a community project. Have to find a couple of pensioners who will make it their project I feel.

But it is a great idea and I hope it comes off.

[GaryD]

Hi,

I recommend that, if people are planning to make a business out of aquaponics, they start small......and learn about aquaponics and (more importantly) business before they take the plunge.

Aquaponics offers the opportunity for financial benefit from the moment you begin to grow your own food.

I periodically hear people say that you can't produce homegrown food for the same price you can buy it. Nonsense!

Bear in mind that the food that you spend $10 at the supermarket has actually cost you $13 (or more) if you paid for it with post-tax dollars.

Once you take the decision to go commercial, life gets much more complicated. If you're going to sell fish, you'll be getting to know the Department of Primary Industries people much better and your local Council will take a very real interest in what you're doing.

When you've jumped that hurdle, the real game of business begins.

Gary

[Jonathan Dyer]

G’day guys,

My first post on your website Garry, just like to provide some comments.

I do question your response when you here people say that “you cant produce homegrown food for the same price you can buy it. Nonsense!”

Well for many small gardeners there is a certain amount of truth in that certain fruit and vegetables are difficult to grow and can be an expensive exercise when growing it in your backyard.

I am a horticulturist and grow a range of fruit and vegetables on a small portion of our 2000ac farm in the central Wheatbelt of Western Australia. I have a sound understanding of what many fruit and vegetables cost to grow. I do agree that there is still a range of fruit n’ veg people can grow at cost or below cost price at the supermarkets if the correct approach is taken. Yet, I’m sure you understand that growing food in your backyard is not as easy as throwing some “Magic Beans” in the dirt and expect them to prosper and be of exceptional quality and nutritional value.

Fox example lets say “Joe Bloggs" and his family has an average new house in Perth (Now getting much smaller in size than 10yrs ago and worth over $600,000 to buy in an average area mind you with almost the entire house taking up the size of the block itself) So hence only limited space for a garden.

They buy a punnet of Cos lettuce 8 raised seedlings ready for transplant and at the same time they buy a 25L bag of Dynamic Lifter, 500ml liquid fertiliser (N20:P5:K9) and a 500gm packet of snail pellets.

We can say they used the entire bag of Dynamic Lifter worked into the soil to help build organic matter, activate soil microbes and slight improvements in water retention of Perth’s sandy soils, ready to plant in spring/summer. A total of 30g snail pellets spread around the plants. Applied 3 x 25ml liquid fertiliser to the plant throughout the growing period.

Assuming all plants survive all up it has cost them:

Total per plant
Cos Lettuce $2.50 $0.31
Dynamic Lifter $12.00 $1.50
Liquid Fertiliser $7.00 $0.13
Snail Pellets $5.00 $0.03

TOTAL: $26.50 $1.97 or thereabouts

I believe that these figures are fair and reasonable for a family with little experience on growing food and following the advice of the garden specialist. Given that water is not included in the costing which alone in some areas of Australia are facing strict watering restrictions which should be taken into account where water is scarce and the fact that it is a very basic set up which would increase in cost if more pesticides needed to be used, more expensive fertilisers were used etc.

When I know during the spring/summer months there is a large supply of commercial Cos lettuce on the Perth market place where prices for one lettuce can be around the 70 odd cent mark (just remember the commercial grower gets a fraction of that). So it had cost them at that particular time $1.27 extra to grow themselves than to buy.

So all in all it is quite common to find times on the market place where fruit n’ veg is selling much less than an average family with little technical knowledge on growing food could grow it themselves.

Home gardeners do not have the luxury of economies of scale that myself and other commercial growers have; we buy our liquid fertiliser by the 1000L and bulk fertiliser by the truck load and due to many unforeseen things such as adverse weather conditions, low water reserves, market fluctuations, rising fuel, fertilisers etc. it still can be difficult to produce good food without passing these costs on to the consumer. Therefore, growing fruit n’ veg in the backyard will start to become much more economical for “Joe Bolggs” and his family in Australia.

Just remember not all plants can be grown everywhere; frost sensitive plants for example will not grow on my farm during the winter months nor could I grow mangoes, bananas or coffee as I do not have a suitable climate as it can get to near +50C in the summer and -3C in the winter. Unlike Queensland where everything prospers different areas of Australia and even the world needs to take a plants ability to grow and mature satisfactorily into account and of course the amount of room they have for a garden. You need to ask am I able to buy a certain food on the market cheaper than what is will cost me to grow including the yields in Summer, Autumn, Winter and Spring? Knowing this it will help to understand whether or not it is viable to grow something in you backyard or simply cheaper to buy.

Yet, Hydroponics and aquaponics have the ability to be controlled in almost every aspect from a simple system to a fully high-tech multi-million dollar enclosed hothouse ecosystem and provides great opportunity for everyone to be able to produce food at a cost effective price. Ideally even hydroponics could be established on the planet Mars maybe not economically vial able but still technological possible.

[Murray]

Hi Jonathan,
Welcome to the forum and a good first post. You have raised some very good points. Like all accounting I guess it depends on how one arranges the figures as to the end result. I agree that initially it may well be more expensive to grow your own. I personally would not spend a cent on Dynamic Lifter and the like, but everybody is different.
If you were to cost into the equation the cost of new tanks and grow beds etc then it would take some years to get your money back.

But cost is possibly the last reason why people turn to Aquaponics at home.
Top of the list would be the desire to move a small way toward the ideal of self sustainability. Next, the very strong desire to move away from chemical drenched food. More evidence is mounting almost daily showing links between common ailments and the rampant use of preservatives and chemicals in our food chain.
And lastly, the immense sense of satisfaction gained when sitting down to a meal of home produced food. I don't know if it really tastes better, but I reckon it does !!!! :)

Others may have other reasons......please list them....

But, for my money, I really don't care if it costs me more to eat those beautiful big, round, red tomatoes grown at home on fish poo. :D

Viva Aquaponics !!!!!!

[doug.a]

Hi Jonathan,
I am a bit south of you in kulin. In answer i believe there are many more reasons to grow ones own vegies and Fish. It has been an amazing insight into a system which is viable at all levels. It is delightfully reasuring to see my grandchildren realising that carrots don't come in plastic bags and green vegies do have an individual taste and as murray says the taste of your own fish poo tomatoes is immensly satisfying apart from tasting amazing. As a Large entity on this blue island in a vast universe we must come to an understanding that " if we are not part of the answer then we must be part of the problem" which as we (and i probably misquote) "are the only animal on earth that can save all the others" we must take a stand as individuals, therefore being part of the problem it is down to us as indviduals to do something about it.
We all realise that we really can't be fully self sufficient but we must at least be able to each do our own little bit. i fully understand what you are saying and i believe to produce veggies and fish is an immensley rewarding and expensive undertaking for any one person, however how many individuals does it take to make a crowd and how many crowds does it take for people to realise that there are other ways to make a difference. after the initial cost which if done frugally is not that much (I am of Scots stock so frugal is my middle name). If we take that into consideration as against the cost of travelling to the shop to buy an even shaped and non tasting product and i must say here that it is not the farmers fault. The supermarkets have decided that this is what we want so it is what we are forced to buy I crave for a good tomatoe and carrot etc i dont care if it is an odd shape it doesn't mater a damn to me but if i have to buy from them this is all i can get it is demonstrably wrong .
Anyway i must stop and get down from this sweet tasting mishaped apple box and say welcome Jonathan and i am sure you are in safe hands here.

PS. Jonathan where is our nearest Farmers market is it Albany? :confused:

[Martin A1]

Welcome Jonathon. Your perspective as a farmer with financial accumen is very welcome.

Doug.a you took the words right out of my mouth... I am of the same feeling totally!

I sense that there is a change in the air with an ever increasing number of like minded people wanting to do there bit to reduce their footprint/become more self sustainable - aquaponics is one tool in a range of small steps towards this state.

It may currently cost a bit more but that's not the point. Cheap is not always the best. Quality and sustainability remains long after price is forgotten. I also believe that the cost of mass food production will change radically if the price of oil continues to rise due to demand outstripping supply but that is a whole other "Peak Oil" discussion.

Through this forum I have connected with a group of people in my own Sydney suburb who share some of the same ideas. They have formed there own community based web forum take a look http://veggieweb.net.

A reference on this site is made to the mantra Economise, Localise, Produce. Here is a good blog on the concept by Jeffery J Brown which is related to Peak Oil theory. http://graphoilogy.blogspot.com/2007/04/elp-plan-economize-localize-produce.html

[GaryD]

Hi Jonathon,

My observation about growing food cheaper than it can be bought was premised on the notion that it would be grown aquaponically. Ideally, it would be the result of a several integrations rather than just fish and plants.

As it turns out, the things that grow best in aquaponics.....tomatoes, lettuce and herbs......are the most expensive to purchase.

I learned about 30 years ago that backyard food production that mimicked commercial food production was a formula for disaster.

The really big innovations in commercial farming have been the product of experimentation by small monomaniacs on a mission.

Gary

[Jonathan Dyer]

G’Day all,

Thanks for everybody’s response I will write a bulk reply just to save some time.

We all understand the differences from homegrown food to that of the supermarket that has just come out of cold storage that was put there 3 months ago, fresh is always best by whatever means. Most home gardeners don’t care if there tomato looks somewhat like a leper just as Doug mentioned odds given it will taste just the same however, come commercial as this forum is contemplating the idea of, food that goes on the market shelf cannot look like **** unfortunately, no one will buy it, the distributor will not buy it, the supermarket will not but it, the consumer will not buy it. It may have taken 3 months of work and possibly 10’s of thousands of dollars will just go down the drain so to speak, nothing more than animal fodder.

I know because it happened to me earlier this year. Doug you would remember this February where the entire state got to 40C+ for like a week? Well that hot whether damaged a lot of my rockmelons all it did was put a very small sun spot on them not much more and they were only 3 days off harvest. Give them a week and that sun spot grew and eventually the fruit went rotten, not much I could do. If I could have sold them even for processing jams, ice-cream etc I would have but no one would buy them nor at the same time I would get payed much for them; but that’s farming.

So I guess my point here is we cannot compare commercial food to that of homegrown food in the sense of unconventional presentation and marketability. We can compare many other factors such as freshness, chemical free if it is, cost of production, flavor look the list goes on and on.



My second point I would like to make is that all food production requires elements in the form of fertiliser to grow weather it be from an organic source chicken manure, fish poo or commercial/chemical DAP, urea. Yet, to grow plants and even animals successfully they need a complete combination of elements in the correct amounts (not too much not to little) in order to produce a quality product.

For example contrary to what most people on this site say tomatoes are much more difficult to grow in an aquaponics system. Lettuces on the other hand are relatively easy due to the fact that lettuces do not need phosphorus or potassium in any great quantities but still require modest nitrogen levels. The waste produced by the fish are not high in either phosphorus or potassium yet, supply adequate amounts of nitrogen due to the fishes diet and own requirements. Trace elements need not be forgotten particularly iron to help nitrogen uptake/absorption (especially in aquaponics) all must be supplied to allow good plant growth. Tomatoes require much larger amounts of nutrients in order to grow they require large amounts of Nitrogen, Potassium, Phosphorus and Calcium, Iron, Sulfur and Magnesium that exceeds the levels in the waste products of fish. Nor can you have 100 fish to 1 tomato plant in order to supply adequate levels of phosphorus as then you have way too much Nitrogen and will become toxic to both the plant and fish. Some of the tomato photos I have seen on this site shows that the fruit are lacking in probably phosphorus and iron due to the pail rope like pattern on the fruit and intern the fruit may grow, taste very nice but still be lacking in certain elements which means less nutritional value for someone who eats it. In a backyard it is not as important but in a large scale farm if left unattended it can mean great loss of yield, reduction of colour, as said before deformed fruit, poor keeping qualities, the plant becomes much more susceptible to pests and diseases the flow down effect can be devastating.

And as for animals Doug you may be aware of “Denmark’s wasting disease” or “Costal wasting disease” where the south west costal plain is deficient in the soil of Selenium and Cobalt. Mostly sheep grazing on the paddocks become deficient very quickly and must be provided a source of these elements or risk becoming very sick. Therefore, there are 3 main options:
1. Bullets – Where a small pellet (just a few grams) of the raw elements commonly containing both Selenium and Cobalt together is injected down the throat of the animal where it sits in the stomach for several years and is absorbed slowly.
2. Aqua blocks – Where a dissolvable block is placed in to the drinking water of the animals.
3. Topdressing – When fertilising the paddocks fertilisers containing Selenium and Cobalt are used providing a source back into the plant and up taken by the animal.
Just think what happens to humans if lacking Vitamin C 'Scurvy' and what effects it has on ones health.


My 3rd point if I may; thanks for the link Martin some good reading there I guess that’s the luxury of having land we can grow canola/mustard plants to produce our own oil extracted from the seed to operate our machinery. At the moment it still is not economically viable to grow canola or mustard and process it into oil yet, but it wont be long before it will be when diesel reaches $1.60+/L. Or how about extracting the oil content from ‘Duckweed’. Much easier to grow than canola but less oil content and may be more difficult to extract I don’t fully know. On the topic of duckweed does anyone know where I can get a supply of it here in WA for my aquaponics system to feed my fish?

Doug I think Narrogin has a farmers market or fair/fate once a month but I don’t fully know. Albany certainly has a farmers market yet is 500km from me but would be worth a visit when I down that way next I went to Denmark Ag School so I know a few people there. There is a farmers market every weekend in East Perth next to the train station but I don’t know what its like but trust me when I say you cant miss it (the buildings are very colourful).:)