Bubba up and running!

[Bubba]

Woot. My Balcony kit is full of water and gurgling away! Expanded clay balls in the growbed, and happy little seedlings in. /HappyDance

Some advice on the fishless cycling would be grand.

So I've been adding a teaspoon of Urea each morning and testing the water each night. First 3 days Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite were all sitting on 0 whilst the PH is sitting on 8.

I presume the PH is down to the expanded clay? A quick consult of Garry's tome left me thinking 8 is probably more favorable for the bacteria at this stage. Do I have that right? Need to do anything about it?

Tonight the Ammonia has jumped to 0.5ppm. Do I stop/reduce the amount of Urea I am adding or continue on a 1 teaspoon a day?

I have a 500W water heater in the FT at the moment - really just showing me temperature at this point. Whilst I'm aware it isnt cheap to run and have some concerns re the fossil fuel use I'b a bit worried at how late in the year it is to be starting a crop of trout. Would heating the water during while cycling the tank aid significantly in establishing the bacterial colonies? If so what temperature range would be optimal?

Oh did I say Woot! :)

Plans for System mark 2 already on the sketch board!

PS thanks Murray and Adelaide Darren for you help getting things together.

[aussieap]

Hey Bubba, nice work. Fishless cycling, at least someone listens!
The pH is your water, the clay balls are neutral.
An ammo reading means bacteria will move in shortly and start to convert it to nitrite then nitrate. It may take a few weeks, don't stress.
The heater will certainly help it cycle quicker, bit worried about what happens when you get that sudden temp drop in the system when you turn the heater off. Don't worry about the water being too cold for trout, they will be fine.
If you wanted to follow obo's example, you could do a round trip (albeit to Ballarat not Perth,) and get 6 inch trout. Plenty time to grow them out b/n now and end October/November say.
I guess the other thing you could do is wait til Sept 1, and put your new season warm water fingerlings in.
Oh yeah, photos man!

[Murray]

The use of UREA as a method of cycling a system should be done with caution. Steady as she goes.
Use very small amounts. Some members have got into a real mess by getting heavy handed with the UREA.
If you must use UREA in your new Balcony system...just once only....half a teaspoon...then a CAP full of Seasol daily after that.
Plant your plants immediately.
After about two weeks...get the fish.
Assuming you are getting fingerlings..not large fish.

Plants will use directly some of the ammonia produced by the fish, so it is good insurance for the fish to have plants into the system right from day one. The plants will do very well on the Seasol. There is very little ammonia producing elements in Seasol, but there is enough there to get the good bacteria going.
As the plants grow they are more and more capable of directly taking up ammonia produced by the fish.

Be patient, in the dead of winter it could take 4 to 6 weeks to get a nitrate reading. Don't be tempted to "give it a bit more" to try and hurry everything along.

To convert the UREA to a usable form of Ammonia an enzyme contained within a specific bacteria is needed, (urease) that is found in soil but rarely found in a new aquaponics system. This is one of the reasons why people get varying results when attempting to cycle with urea.
It also explains why repeated use of urea in regular dirt gardens (and new aquaponic systems) has ever diminishing results, and why leaf burn occurs because the enzyme needed to convert is either not available or not available in sufficiency quantities.

Urease is an enzyme that catalyzes the conversion of urea to ammonia and carbon dioxide. Certain bacteria that convert urea to ammonia as part of the nitrogen cycle contain this enzyme.
http://www.chemheritage.org/EducationalServices/pharm/antibiot/readings/enzyme/enzyme02.gif
The conversion of urea and water into ammonia and carbon dioxide, one of many biochemical reactions catalyzed by enzymes.
Ammonia changes it's state when passing through Ph 7 making it either toxic or less toxic to fish.

[GaryD]

Hi Bubba,



This is one of the reasons why people get varying results when attempting to cycle with urea.

The principal reason people get into trouble with urea is that they get ham-fisted with its use. The most widely canvassed problem with urea on this forum was the consequence of some bad advice.

Small doses of urea, in conjunction with daily water testing, will get your system cycling quickly.......particularly since you are warming your tank. When your ammonia levels approach 2ppm, reduce the urea to half a teaspoon a day and when you begin to get nitrite readings of 1.0+ppm, discontinue its use entirely. Once your ammonia drops to zero, your system has cycled.

......then add your fish


It also explains why repeated use of urea in regular dirt gardens (and new aquaponic systems) has ever diminishing results

The use of urea in fishless cycling spans a period of a week to 10 days so extended use won't be an issue in an aquaponics system.

The other way of getting your system to cycle quickly, is to get some a few litres of water out of an exisiting aquaponics system......that is the fastest and safest fishless cycling method.

Much of the discussion around fishless cycling dates back to prior to the proliferation of aquaponics system. Now there are lots of them and obtaining water from an operating system is much easier.

As Murray has suggested, adding a capful of seasol a day will keep your plants ticking along.

Gary

[Bubba]

Woot! Nitrites in the water!

I'm not usually one to anthropomorphise but I did tell the tank to "Hurry up and cycle you B****D! last night after a tough day at work. Nitrites this afternoon. Coincidence? You judge :)

[Murray]

What is the pH doing right through this ?

[Bubba]

PH has sat on 8
Nitirte test is colored between 0 and 2.5 but is a definite purple now.

[Murray]

That is really good about the Nitrite, sometimes I have noticed that the Nitrate and Nitrite readings can swing about a bit in the next couple of weeks of the process, but don't be alarmed, it will balance out.
I would try to gently bring the pH down a bit over the next week....see if you can get it down to 7.0

You can use lemon juice (takes a lot) or go buy a $6.00 bottle of hydrochloric acid at the hardware. BE VERY CAREFUL HANDLING ACID. Make sure you do not breathe the fumes.

A half to 1 cap full a day will bring the pH down....steady as she goes.

[Bubba]

gave the lemon juice a try last week - added 750ml of concentrate over 2 days with no real noticeable effect. I had decided that NH4 is a base so with the ammonia test showing green the water will be basic.

I was reticent to use HCL because of the toxicity of the chlorine but now that I think of it CL- isn't quiet the same thing. I have some HCL in the shed will add a little as you have advised.

[Bubba]

Nitrate showing!
Celebratory Beer justified! :D

[Bubba]

couple of questions

Attached is my water quality data for last week and a bit. I'm heating the water to 22.5c at the moment to speed up the cycling.

I was adding 1 tspn of Urea a day until it went past 5ppm and havent added any for over a week. NH4 has sat at 8ppm for a week and a bit now.

Obviously I've hit the spike in nitates and Nitrites I'm looking for. Now I know this is a how long is a piece of string question....but what kind of time line am I likley to see for the spike to drop?

Second question presuming THe tank is ready for fish within the next 1-2 weeks is 5.5 months of cooler weather worth it for some Trout or do you think I should just suck it up and put some boring goldfish in untill Silvers become available?

[Castaway]

Get as many plants into your Balcony Grow Bed as you can fit and monitor their health. How are the plants growing at the moment? That'll give you an indication as to how well they are at absorbing the Nitrates and the inevitable Ammonia spike will drop when the bacteria start doing their work.

[Bubba]

Yep the plants have noticably picked up since the Nitrates have been detectable. Time to get the second growbed up and running I think.

[djs-sa]

In adelaide I would run some goldfish for 3-4months then get some barra from the hatchery at west beach and u will have table size fish quicker then any other fish or if you plan on heating at 22.5 all winter get the barra now and you will have fish ready dec-jan
if you do go with barra you can get upto 100mm fingerlings from west beach which is the size I used to get

I saw some video of my old fish and they were 1.5kg avg. in 10months but water temp runs at 28-30c with tanks indoors