Bell siphon in air tight container.

[Zukku]

Ok so I tested this out while I was waiting for forum validation.

Auto siphon air tight.jpg


It failed cause I used too small of tubes for both the inlet and outlet for the canister, I plan on purchasing the correct parts some time next week so I can give it another go.

I have begun to think it will not work though, cause of when the water in the grow beds get to low the pipe would start to suck air, unless the siphon was higher then the bottom of the tube in the grow bed.

I was planning on having an array of grow beds run on just the one siphon, and a bigger canister, if a pump or two went out maybe it could keep the beds all at the same level as it went through its cycle, just at a slower rate.

Any ideas or suggestions?

[Pugo]

I am not a big fan of bell siphons to begin with and don't use them at all. There is no real reason to have them in a system with mechanical flitration anyway.. Sealing one in an air tight container defeats how they work as they use air to break the siphon anyway.

[Zukku]

Yes, I see now that may have been the problem with my test earlier and not so much the small pipe size.

Well I still have ideas to continue thinking about before I post them. Maybe they wont be such duds. =P

[DaveOponic]

Hi Pugo,

Just wondering why you say bell siphons aren't necessary if you have filtration. Can you explain? So do you use continuous flow? In the hot climate here I find that does not work so well as the water will evaporate quickly from the top layer of the GB. Also with flood and drain the key reason is to aerate the water and the rots of the plant right? I have used siphons for a few years and while they can be problematic at times, when they work, the results are good.
I'm always open to new ideas but so far I like flood and drain. I have plenty of filtration but can't see how this makes a difference to using siphons or not.

Cheers

dave

[chainsaw]

Hi Zukka, Syphons will work, but not as your drawing suggests.

1. The outlet from the syphon (in drawing) will allow water to be trapped in the drain pipe, a definant no no. Air must be allowed to get back up the pipe all the way to the stadpipe and bell, which allows the syphon to break.

2. Do not use water bridges to interconnect GBs here are a couple of different methods I have used. I have a better method I will use next time that I have advised a couple of people to use to save on expenses. Still uses the Mega Syphon principle.

Having said all that I find my system stays a lot cleaner by timed flood and drain. Syphons do have a tendency to suck all the crap back to the FT.



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Hi Dave, Like the comments.

[DaveOponic]

Hi Chainsaw

Still haven't made that megasiphon. Just can't get the right fittings here. I did make one once out of a 200 litre drum, using a piece of big bamboo as the bell. It worked a treat but its purpose was to dump water onto the GB's not empty them, if that makes sense. I decomissioned it as its huge throaty gurgle in the middle of the night kept my daughter awake as it was right outside her window. She was very impressed that time we called in, by your "Garden Jungle" as she called it. We don't get back to Palmwoods as often as we would like. My son is at Uni in Brisbane now so usually end up there when we are home.

cheers

Dave

[Pugo]

DaveOponic
Yes Taiwan Like Brunei are hot places. But really use a little logic here. As you use siphons you bring your water much closer to the top of the grow-bed than I do. So you are going to lose more water than I do. For a couple of reasons first your water is higher and will have to deal with the sun and warm rocks between cycles, then once the water is gone your grow-bed will have to deal with evaporation. Now my grow-beds are only six inches deep and my water level is only running at the lower level of the bed which is 2 inches so there is 4 inches covering of gravel over the water. I only have to add water once in every three or four days and even at that not very much has to be added. My water is so well protected from the sun I have never even had a alague bloom or green anything except were the water enter the grow beds. Granted when I start seedlings I do have to raise the water level to 4 inches for a couple of weeks before I start dropping back to the bottom. The I have to add water every other day and when it is really hot everyday. But bell siphons give me the feeling of watching black and white TV.. instead of my 42 inch LED TV..

As far as aeration you are right it is very important when you use continuous flow. But I use a moving bed filter, so my water is highly oxygenated when it leaves the bio filter. And after a year of running not once have I had to do anything but clean and add water.. How many times have you had to mess around with your bell siphons?

[Zukku]

I was under the impression that if done correctly the bell siphon can run continuously without and problems as long as there is enough water, my jury rigged one only had problems when I first installed it incorrectly. It has yet to stop working ever since, its only been a few weeks though.

I like that megasiphon, I think i will look into that idea, are there instructions somewhere i can look at?

[chainsaw]

No time now but will post something up for you later.

[DaveOponic]

Hi Pugo,

Some food for thought in your post. I had tried continuous flow very early in my AP adventures but then discovered the bell siphon. While they can be tricky to tune. My experience has been that once running, they are very reliable. The only thing I need to do on occasions is clear the tomato or cucumber roots from the siphons. In the early days I had problems with stones getting under the bottom of the bell but then I made a modification by using an end cap at the bottom of the bed so the big pipe fitted into it.

I do take your point about evaporation and water levels, algae etc. as I am setting up a new system I might try a continuous flow setup. I usually work outmy own designs, taking the best of what I see of other systems.
Tropical systems have their own problems as you understand well. The growing of fish (tilapia and koi) is the easy part. Growing vegetables is the challenge. Basil is a piece of cake but I had two years of growing so much basil here I couldn't give it all away. We still have a freezer full of home made basil pesto!

Cheers

dave